prong?

I have no patience for training tools like prongs, chokes, halti's, GL, no-pull harnesses etc... And yes, I have tried a few of them but it will never happen again. I think they cause more work than anything and it's too easy to completely rely on them. If I need to force my dog to work with me via a prong, then I am doing something wrong.

 
This is a pretty unrealistic opinion.  Working with out training devices is great in theory and sometimes in actuality.  A lot of the time the dogs problems out way the owners abilities, and training devices become necessary. 
 
My philosphy...do what works for you and yours...as long as your are always humane an evenhanded with your dog.

Mic,
 That was a great way to put that.
I can't even begin to imagine *attempting* to walk my rescue dog without the use of a prong. He flat out drug my husband( all 285lbs of him) 35 feet the night we picked him up and stopped for gas on the way home and him to potty. When my feet hit our property me and Mr. Hanibal went out back for a little get to know me period because if I couldn't handle this dog he would have been making a one way trip to the vet the next morning.
 In my breed and the rescues we come in contact with sometimes you have to start out big and work your way down to nice. It's not my first choice but neither are irresponsible owners

I originally included in my post that I could understand the need to rely on training tools if you are rescuing a dog that has had no training. Its just not something I would do.
 
I don't think my opinion is unrealistic at all for me.  I will never use a training tool on any future dogs because I find that they cause more work and that I start relying on them instead of training through the problem.  I would also prefer to have willing attention, not using a prong to forcibly remind my dog to give me attention or walk nicely. 
 
I dogsat my friends dog who weighs 90lbs, he's had no training or socialization and has been on every training tool on the market.  She told me that there was no way I could walk him with the GL harness and/or prong.  He didn't wear either during those 5 days and I wasn't pulled down the street.
 
I also have a 70lbs hound that likes to follow his nose so I know what dealing with pullers is like.
 
 

ORIGINAL: mrgmfoster 

My philosphy...do what works for you and yours...as long as your are always humane an evenhanded with your dog.

 
You know what Mic, putting it all into perspective, I couldn't agree more with that statement.

Pain insensitive dogs like Pits and Labs are among the likeliest candidates to pull on a slip or prong collar - you are correct.  That's why I like to employ a device that puts side leverage on the dog, such as the Easy Walk.  A young pup should be getting his training, and using the device only to keep both dog and handler safe on their walks between training sessions. 
Unfortunately, most people don't start training their dogs not to pull on the leash until they're already pulling - I 've been guilty of it myself when time gets the better of me.  But, even if that's happened, with a motivated dog (food, toy, whatever), you should be able to teach it "when I catch up to mom's leg, I get my reward".  If you need to chug off in the opposite direction, so be it, but Phydeaux should be rewarded somehow when he gets to that left leg.
 

Now, as to training methods, why the h&^% can't we at least all agree that we should START with the most positive, rather than starting with the pain-inducing methods??????

What is the pain-inducing methods, a prong collar isn't a pain inducing methods (if its put on right). Now I can say I wouldn't use one on a puppy or a dog that is shy for its own good. A prong collar is just like a mother correcting her pup or how an alpha dog would correct the subordinate dog. It pinches the naturally loose skin around the dogs neck. When PROPERLY adjusted and used, it startles the dog and gives a sharp correction.

it startles the dog and gives a sharp correction.

 
OK, so I guess I still don't understand why you would *start* with that before opting to use another, no-pain method...
Also, it isn't just shy dogs that shouldn't wear prong collars.  The same could apply to leash reactive or aggressive dogs as well.  Often, the leash reactive dogs are the ones I see with prongs on, because the owners don't get that the dog is scared, not aggressive, and they just continue to make it worse.  Dog thinks "every time I see another dog, my neck hurts - I'd better frighten it away".  But, of course, the lunging and barking just serves to tighten that prong...
Before people urge others, whose dogs they don't know, to use equipment that they use, IMO, they should consider the same caveat that doctors use - "first, do no harm".

OK! just like telling some not letting their kids play and romp around in the house. good one. Dogs are dogs (not human) some were bred to serve man not to be put on a pedestal. That is ONE reason why there is so many dogs with aggressive and alpha problems. And I didn't tell anyone to use a prong collar I told the poster that start this thread to use a martingale collars since it is a puppy. 

Dogs are dogs (not human)

 
Sounds like you just want to start an argument, but I'm not interested. 
I don't necessarily think that dogs being dogs places them below humans.  They are simply different than we are, and quite wonderful in their own way.  IMO, they certainly have treated us more humanely than we have treated them over the milennia, and they spend way more time trying to figure out how to understand us than we spend doing the same for them.
What does anything I said have to do with telling people anything about their children?  But, since you brought it up, I don't think you have to use the equivalent of a prong collar on them to make them mind. 

Before people urge others, whose dogs they don't know, to use equipment that they use, IMO, they should consider the same caveat that doctors use - "first, do no harm".

 
Also, I did not direct this remark to you, luv4gsd's.  It was a general response to the preponderance of posts about prongs, which, in this instance (as you say, it's a puppy), I thought inappropriate equipment for the OP to use at this time.

Nope I don't want to argue with you or anyone else either (I have better thing to do). Dogs are animals they are neither in front of us or behind us and I didn't say anything about them being belows us. Like I said before some of them are bred to serve us not us serve them from what I have seen and read there is some people that take pet ownership way to far. It is a 6 month old puppy that the poster has and they wanted to know about using a prong collar on it.

Hi Anne!  Shadow sends Sioux some sugar......
 
Just for curiosity sake....where would YOU place a prong?  Up high in the more sensitive part of the neck to inflict maximum pain?  Or lower where the flat collar would go?
 
And, for the record, I keep hearing about momma dogs who SCRUFF their pups......I've never seen it.  In all the litters I've had through my house, I've NEVER seen momma scruffing.

I've seen it. I have to laugh at some of these post here . Up high down low. You have your way of putting on a prong collar and others have their way. No two eople are going to aplly a collar at the same place.

This is just getting to the point where it is frivolous now. Spiritdogs, I do agree with you that "pain-free" methods should not be the immediate option, but, I also do not believe that a prong inflicts pain of any sort. Do I think that the original poster should use one on her puppy, not necessarily. A 6-month-old puppy, especially a Ridgeback, is quite a big dog with a lot of weight to throw around, so it could very well be a circumstance that requires it, we cannot be the judge of that. I also don't think that all dogs require a prong, and it works better for some than others. I personally use nylon chokers before prongs because they a less invasive, less bulky and just less of a collar to deal with. But, I also feel the same way about a flat collar. Training a dog that pulls, not to, on a flat collar, would most definately cause more harm than using a prong.
 
Glenda- there IS in fact, and proper and improper way to fit a prong collar. The proper way has absolutely nothing to do with "maximum pain infliction" mostly because well, prongs don't inflict any sort of momentus amount of pain. If you were to place a prong down where a flat collar typically sits, you would be applying greater risk of damaging your dogs trachea than if you did it the correct way.