Mastering the dominance ritual

I'm also grateful for the helpful PM messages I'm receiving.

You're welcome.  Glad to do it - anytime. []

As someone who has used these techniques in the past but no longer does, I am hesitant to offer advice in a more public way.  However, you are seeking advice on this particular methodology and the majority of the advice you are getting is in line with what I practiced.
 
The main ingredient in all of these situations is YOU.  You need to display a calm demeanor, and show confidence.  Depending upon how focused your dog can be, your approach needs to vary with her.  But at all times be aware that your dog is reading your body language, and smelling your scent, and feeling what YOU are transmitting through the lead.  So your attitude is the most important part of these interactions.
 
I hope this helps you out.[]

One thing that came to mind as I read through this thread...
 
Are you paying attention to your dog's position during the walk? Not allowing her to walk ahead of you is a biggie in establishing leadership with this dog, and to keep her from escalating. IMO

ORIGINAL: Angelique

One thing that came to mind as I read through this thread...

Are you paying attention to your dog's position during the walk? Not allowing her to walk ahead of you is a biggie in establishing leadership with this dog, and to keep her from escalating. IMO

Sorry, but I don't agree.   Where's the science?
My dogs walk wherever they want 90% of the time.  Why?  Because I don't give a rat's butt if they meander a bit down the country lanes that we traverse.  When I ask, in the city, for example, they walk nicely by my side.  They never have any problem figuring out that I'm the leader and I get a response on my first request (command).  They all have great recalls, and are terrific, happy dogs.
I practice a pleasant form of NILIF, and I control the household resources.  They completely get it, with no problem. []

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

ORIGINAL: Angelique

One thing that came to mind as I read through this thread...

Are you paying attention to your dog's position during the walk? Not allowing her to walk ahead of you is a biggie in establishing leadership with this dog, and to keep her from escalating. IMO

Sorry, but I don't agree.   Where's the science?
My dogs walk wherever they want 90% of the time.  Why?  Because I don't give a rat's butt if they meander a bit down the country lanes that we traverse.  When I ask, in the city, for example, they walk nicely by my side.  They never have any problem figuring out that I'm the leader and I get a response on my first request (command).  They all have great recalls, and are terrific, happy dogs.
I practice a pleasant form of NILIF, and I control the household resources.  They completely get it, with no problem. []

Anne, even though I'm with you on this, the OP is asking about an entirely different philosophy in which walking position IS a big deal.  []

Wow.  I'm impressed by this thread on so many levels.
 
The jury is still out for me on this technique.... so I don't feel I have much to offer.  I do feel that if I had a dog I wanted to try this on, I would want someone to show me and walk me through it and I wouldn't feel totally OK just going ahead and doing it by myself.
 
I would suggest that you don't use it a lot because I'm sure that it conveys a very powerful message.  If thats a good thing then you want it so stay powerful and effective.  If it's not so good then you want to minimise any stress for you or the dog.  I hope that makes sense.  Rather than use this technique or try to move your dog away from her triggers, still aim to keep a good distance from them in the first place to keep her stress level (and yours!) low and keep this as a last resort..... this will also help you (and the dog!) to remain calm and focused.  Other people have already stressed how important calmness is.

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

ORIGINAL: Angelique

One thing that came to mind as I read through this thread...

Are you paying attention to your dog's position during the walk? Not allowing her to walk ahead of you is a biggie in establishing leadership with this dog, and to keep her from escalating. IMO

Sorry, but I don't agree.   Where's the science?
My dogs walk wherever they want 90% of the time.  Why?  Because I don't give a rat's butt if they meander a bit down the country lanes that we traverse.  When I ask, in the city, for example, they walk nicely by my side.  They never have any problem figuring out that I'm the leader and I get a response on my first request (command).  They all have great recalls, and are terrific, happy dogs.
I practice a pleasant form of NILIF, and I control the household resources.  They completely get it, with no problem. []

Anne, even though I'm with you on this, the OP is asking about an entirely different philosophy in which walking position IS a big deal.  []

 
Yes indeed. [] 
 
Why use a more physical and intense means to an end when the basic practice of a CM philosophy and a little effort and patience may give you the establishment of leadership so that it never comes to a physical means in the first place?
 
If Anne could open a thread in the clicker section where she can guide Ixas_Girl step-by-step in her own chosen methods and beliefs, we can all learn how these issues can be resolved outside of a CM type philosophy.
 
The CM way is not the only way. []
 
 

The CM way is not the only way. []

 
Therefore I'm wondering - COULD you still use the technique without the emphasis on who walks where and it still be effective?  *confused*  [&:]

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

The CM way is not the only way. []

Therefore I'm wondering - COULD you still use the technique without the emphasis on who walks where and it still be effective?  *confused*  [&:]

Chuffy, the way I understand it, this particular philosophy encompasses all aspects of domination-I don't mean that in a bad way.  It emphasizes the master/dog relationship.  One of the most basic aspects of that relationship is the walk.  It is important because it becomes a daily ritual which re-emphasizes the place of the dog relative to the master.  It is relatively easy to implement and is part of the foundation and establishment of "master" behavior.

Periodically during the walk the master can allow the dog to sniff or walk in a different position, but the majority of the walk is done with the dog at the master's side or just behind a 1/2 step. 

At least that's the philosophy as I understand it.

Thanks everyone for not straying *too* far off topic, but now I ask everyone to please return to the topic of the dominance ritual: how to do it, when to do it, and what are the options with other corrections in this CM methodology.

There's a thread called "leash agression" ([linkhttp://forum.dog.com/asp/tt.asp?forumid=89]http://forum.dog.com/asp/tt.asp?forumid=89[/link]) where leash behaviors are alread being debated, and I promise I'll start another "mastering the walk" thread tonight to address these issues as well.

Thanks for returning to the topic, and for expressing your very important views in the appropriate forums.

In the meantime, there has been some really great *on topic* offerings here, and I'm going to be giving good energy to those!

[]

ORIGINAL: Ixas_girl

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog
Late...tired...more to come.

I tried to message you, but your PM box if full!

Sorry, I didn't notice. I'll fix it so if you still have questions you can ask them there. I'm taking a break from the main board for a bit. You can see why.[]

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

The CM way is not the only way. []

Therefore I'm wondering - COULD you still use the technique without the emphasis on who walks where and it still be effective?  *confused*  [&:]

Chuffy, the way I understand it, this particular philosophy encompasses all aspects of domination-I don't mean that in a bad way.  It emphasizes the master/dog relationship.  One of the most basic aspects of that relationship is the walk.  It is important because it becomes a daily ritual which re-emphasizes the place of the dog relative to the master.  It is relatively easy to implement and is part of the foundation and establishment of "master" behavior.

Periodically during the walk the master can allow the dog to sniff or walk in a different position, but the majority of the walk is done with the dog at the master's side or just behind a 1/2 step. 

At least that's the philosophy as I understand it.

 
That does seem very logical to me, as a human being.  I'm just wondering if my dog has the same logic.  As it has been stressed before on other threads, the reality is that in a pack, the alpha is not always at the front - but DOES control the pace and direction.  I wonder which is more pertinent to the dog - I'm guessing we'll never klnow for certain, but if it works.....
 
As well as the suggestions the OP has asked for, is there any literature on this subject that might be helpful?  Does CM outline the technique in detail in his book or on one of his DVDs or anything? What about the Monks of New Skete?  (I know they changed their tune in the revised edition.)

If Anne could open a thread in the clicker section where she can guide Ixas_Girl step-by-step in her own chosen methods and beliefs, we can all learn how these issues can be resolved outside of a CM type philosophy.

Did it by way of PM.  This dog is not aggressive and does not have a leadership problem in the sense that she is trying to dominate her owner.  The dog is leash reactive, and IMO is an anxious dog who is not wanting to lead the pack - she wants to depend on her handler for safety.  So, maybe you might want to share how CM would deal with simple leash reactivity.

ORIGINAL: Angelique
I do not recommend avoiding if you feel confident you can handle your dog. But, I do recommend to keep on moving, focusing on the walk, and ignoring.

Yes, this is exactly the hump I'm trying to get over. Understanding how to "handle my dog," enables me to stop avoiding, with the confidence that I *can* handle it. (And I couldn't agree more with spiritdogs, that sweet Ixa needs that from me, too.)

So long as I believe I have no understanding about managing Ixa's reactivity, I will continue to transmit my anxiety to her. That was the jam I was in. This thread is really helping me shed ignorance, which in turn is growing my confidence. [] Thank you thank you thank you!

Angelique, thanks your descriptions, like Awesomedog's tell of the body, the sound, and the touch. These physical manifestations of that elusive state of calm being and knowing, are precisely the hard things to transmt in language!

The term "bump the leash" alongside "pop the leash" ... fabulous! Very descriptive, in terms of words describing how something actually feels! It reminds me of a technique I picked up from a CM show which is to bump the dog with my leg, or touch her bum with my foot, rather than speaking to her. It's elegant.

I'm noticing that if I use that "hey" you mentioned, in a low voice, rather than "good girl" in a higher voice, Ixa remains more focused.

ORIGINAL: Angelique
Establish your relationship in all areas, and you may not need to use the "dominance ritual" at all.

Agreed!

Life happens on its own schedule, ultimately, we're on our own, "in the field", learning this stuff through trial and error ... feeling our way in the dark, so to speak. For me, books nor lessons of the mind can replace that real learning that happens inside my body. No demonstration could have prepared me for how gentle, in my mind and my body, the dominance ritual was, and discovering that naturally, built confidence in my own impulses! In this, I am learning to trust myself, to be the source of my knowledge. This gets to the heart of "Cesarese" for me - that self-mastery part.

Even so, I do respect the caution to work with professionals, hands on, along the way! While we may be "feeling our way in the dark" the beautiful thing about our social species is that others can help to light our way.

you are leash popping your dog?

Say it ain't so, man.
I thought it was about relationship and attitude.

Meaning...if you have to leash pop your dog...then something is going wrong on your end of the stick.