Dog Community

J M

Posted : 4/11/2007 2:48:18 PM

Actually, this is becoming quite mainstream in the dog training world. Classes are popping up everywhere using the click to calm method.

You may want to check in your area. Maybe go sit in on a few classes.

Anyway...back to the collar. I can't say I have ever used it.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

Here...is what I asked. ***I like to see someone take a 2 yr old American Bulldog who has some aggression issues, use a clicker to teach that to walk nicely along with other dogs.

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/11/2007 3:55:11 PM

ORIGINAL: JM

Actually, this is becoming quite mainstream in the dog training world. Classes are popping up everywhere using the click to calm method.

You may want to check in your area. Maybe go sit in on a few classes.

Anyway...back to the collar. I can't say I have ever used it.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

Here...is what I asked. ***I like to see someone take a 2 yr old American Bulldog who has some aggression issues, use a clicker to teach that to walk nicely along with other dogs.

JM, I think the distinction here is that awsomedog wants to see the training done with a dog that the handler doesn't know.
At any rate, I don't get the big deal over this collar. If you look at it, it's simply a choke collar that is kept high on the dog's neck by use of the connected "other" collar. I think it was Amstaffy that pointed out that handlers who show, and who understand the method of using a choke, or "slip" collar, could place it at the same point on the dog's neck without having the extra apparatus. I think the collar is meant to help newbies who may not have the timing or finesse to get control of their dogs. Some of us disagree about optimal ways to control a dog, but that seems to be the modus operandi of that piece of equipment anyway.

DPU

Posted : 4/11/2007 4:13:50 PM

JM, I hope you will not have a need for it. Unfortunately, in many threads I have repeated and repeated about the dog pulling issues at the foster dog showings. I have received recommended ways to optimize the control of the dogs and I have tried them and I have spend my money. This collar was expensive but it worked for me/us and it also benefited the dog. I am overall pleased with it.

Some posters say there are better ways but from this thread I got one thing. People who don't have the need, never have seen the collar, don't know its purpose, don't know how to use it…will LOUDY opine on it and sway others to NO solution. All they know is their 2 acres of land and can't see the real world beyond that. I am no newbie and it appears I am the only one in this thread that has a special need and the collar in hand, SO my opinion has credibility.

Mic Foster

Posted : 4/11/2007 4:19:46 PM

Mic, what about those of use who might have to miss Tuesday? I have Beekeeping School that night. Will the video still be available on Wed AM?

I am not sure how to post our webcam recordings. The system is crazy complicated. I'll see what I can do.

miranadobe

Posted : 4/11/2007 8:55:33 PM

If you look at it, it's simply a choke collar that is kept high on the dog's neck by use of the connected "other" collar.

That's the part I don't understand in the value of this Illusion collar. If I am at all worried about the slip collar moving down the dog's neck, I ...use a smaller slip collar! (Is that insane or what?![:-][8|]

You can get a slip collar that slides over the dog's head and stays close to the top of the neck - it requires that corrections be smaller, but that seems to be the ultimate request out of these tools anyway - to make less intense, yet still effective, corrections. Am I wrong?

DPU

Posted : 4/11/2007 9:02:37 PM

Have you used a choker on a dog that is milling around you and then bolt and pulls? And what is the position of the collar during this?

miranadobe

Posted : 4/11/2007 9:06:07 PM

yes
I see you edited your post, so I'm editing mine:
and the position of the collar is up high near the ears

DPU

Posted : 4/11/2007 9:16:23 PM

Repeat from above and what is the position of the collar during this?

miranadobe

Posted : 4/11/2007 9:18:13 PM

Repeat from above and what is the position of the collar during this?

see above edited post.

DPU

Posted : 4/11/2007 9:23:26 PM

I showed pictures, are you talking about a slip collar that is commonly used in every vets office and if so, you are wrong and I don't let the vet's staff dress my dogs in them. OH, the pain they must experience when they are restrained from pulling and the choking is unbearable to watch.

miranadobe

Posted : 4/11/2007 9:28:57 PM

I showed pictures, are you talking about a slip collar that is commonly used in every vets office and if so, you are wrong and I don't let the vet's staff dress my dogs in them. OH, the pain they must experience when they are restrained from pulling and the choking is unbearable to watch.

Excuse me - I missed whatever pictures you're referring to, other than the one of the Illusion collar. I said specifically slip collars. To demonstrate, this is the kind I refer to (see picture.)

Please advise what I am wrong about.

DPU

Posted : 4/11/2007 10:22:38 PM

No those are not the ones commonly used in vet offices. I have one of those in leather/snake and more of a flat but still a choker. And yes it slips and chokes. I expect those would work but have to be sized specifically to the dog so they are snug on the dog unless I am wrong. The dog's neck shape would be the determining factor. If you are saying the collar will always stay high on the neck, below the ears without being attached to a leash or when attached, the leash is loose, then I will get because it accomplishes the same thing and has to be a lot cheaper. Are you sure it stays high with nothing working against it but gravity. Are you sure, are you sure?

Awsomedog

Posted : 4/11/2007 10:32:54 PM

ORIGINAL: DPU

I showed pictures, are you talking about a slip collar that is commonly used in every vets office and if so, you are wrong and I don't let the vet's staff dress my dogs in them. OH, the pain they must experience when they are restrained from pulling and the choking is unbearable to watch.

Um...is this post a joke? Please tell me it's a joke. Please.

Awsomedog

Posted : 4/11/2007 10:34:12 PM

ORIGINAL: miranadobe

I showed pictures, are you talking about a slip collar that is commonly used in every vets office and if so, you are wrong and I don't let the vet's staff dress my dogs in them. OH, the pain they must experience when they are restrained from pulling and the choking is unbearable to watch.

Excuse me - I missed whatever pictures you're referring to, other than the one of the Illusion collar. I said specifically slip collars. To demonstrate, this is the kind I refer to (see picture.)

Please advise what I am wrong about.

Those are IMPO the best collars...period!

Ixas_girl

Posted : 4/11/2007 10:38:39 PM

ORIGINAL: miranadobe
That's the part I don't understand in the value of this Illusion collar. If I am at all worried about the slip collar moving down the dog's neck, I ...use a smaller slip collar! (Is that insane or what?![:-][8|] ) You can get a slip collar that slides over the dog's head and stays close to the top of the neck - it requires that corrections be smaller, but that seems to be the ultimate request out of these tools anyway - to make less intense, yet still effective, corrections. Am I wrong?

In my novice experience with slip/choke/prong, I found it difficult to keep the collar up under the ears of my dog. It was not due to the the collars being too big. If there was constant tension on the collar, it didn't slip down. But usually, there was lots of loose leash walking, during which the collar would slip down to the shoulders of my dog, and I'd have to stop and hike it back up. I don't think the point is to have pressure on the collar at all times, so inevitably, the collar's going to slip down.

Perhaps it was because my dog has smooth hair, perhaps it was because I'm a novice, perhaps it's just 'cause metal tends to slide. Perhaps if I'd been using a cheap nylon slip lead like Millan often does, the roughness of the material would have caught in my dog's hair and wouldn't have slipped down. Perhaps if my dog walked behind me instead of in front of me, the collar would naturally ride forward and up, not back and down. I dunno.

I assume that the Illusion collar is designed to address the kinds of slipping issues I had.

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A Problem with the I Collar