Good report for ProPlan salmon formula

Well, buggers, Gina!  There goes THAT thot down the crapper! []
 
Sandra, I agree that many of us, probably MOST of us here are aware of our dogs health regardless of what we feed, but heavens......I see sooooo many tootsie rolls on legs, so many dogs with just greasy coats, breath that would kill an ox, and on and on and on......and in many cases the dogs are fed the cheapest food they can find and don't give it another thot.
 
I am not a fan of Purina, that's no secret.  I have had far better results with OTHER brands.  But, I can't argue with Sandra's success with her dogs, nor Susan's with hers.  And if I left anyone out, my apologies in advance.
 
And, for the record, this is my PERSONAL opinion.

Thanks Glen for that!
Dublin is doing fine on the Selects puppy turkey and barley and should we start to see any allergies in the future the fish protein will be next for him.  So many choices now should he have a gluten problem down the road.  Start at the top and then where would I go next? 
For now he is growing too fast, coat is gorgeous and poop is excellent.  Only twice a day once in a blue moon three times if he had too many goodies inbetween.  I am very happy with Pro Plan Selects-and have better results than with our last dog on regular Pro Plan.  Less corn makes a big difference in poop loads to clean up.  I know it just irks the snooty homecookers at the dog park that he is doing so well since they feel its their job to educate me on the evils of Purina.  Should of seen their faces when I said I worked for them for eight years.  It was priceless.  And their dogs are overweight and have funky coats! 

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

So why is it that most premium foods ( not supermarket stuff) has rfemoved menadione from their ingredients long ago?

If it was such a horrible ingredient, why did all of these wonderful holistic companies include it in the first place, don't they research the ingredients they put into there food, don't they know what they are doing?  They removed it not for some honorable reason, but quite simply to increase sales.  The companies that removed it market to people that want all natural and holistic ingredients and menodione is synthetic. It is actually an expensive ingredient, if someone starts a campaign saying remove that expensive ingredient or we won't buy your product, what are you going to do? It has been in used in all kind of animal feeds for over 60 years, show me evidence of all these dogs dying from it.

Is Purina not doing the exact same thing by creating the Selects line to begin with? To cater to those who want natural ingredients? Or even the Pro Plan line for that matter?  If the original urina Dog Chow is everything Purina claims it to be, then why create ONE and Pro Plan and Selects for any other purpose than to cater to differnet market shares and increase sales? We are not talking about not-for-profit orgainizations here, regardless of which company we are discussing!

The old Purina website would rave about how healthy corn and by-products are, and how they are so essential for your pets health, and suddenly they are mysterously absent from Pro Plan selects.  You knock the holistic companies for adding blueberries and whole grains and removing by-products and corn, but Purina should be heralded for jumping on the evil holistic bandwagon and doing the same thing to grab it's slice of the market share pie? 

I'm also a true believer in that you cannot possibly know that your dog is "doing well" on any food unless you have the magical ability to foresee the future.  Besides, if so many people's dogs seem really healthy on this new Selects line, then maybe that 's just proof that the holistic companies were right after all, that ingredients do matter.

and suddenly they are mysterously absent from Pro Plan selects.

To please the consumer....they never say that they are bad....

Also, each of those lines are based on price....Purina Dog chow is dirt cheap.  There are some ppl out there who do well just to be able to afford to feed their dog anything. 

ORIGINAL: papillon806

and suddenly they are mysterously absent from Pro Plan selects.

To please the consumer....they never say that they are bad....

 
Right, that was my point.

Also, each of those lines are based on price....Purina Dog chow is dirt cheap.  There are some ppl out there who do well just to be able to afford to feed their dog anything. 

 
Ha...tell that to my neighbor across the street who is the president of a chemical company drives a porsche that he feeds Dog Chow because he can't afford anything else!
 
Here is what Purina says about its Dog Chow line
 
"The carefully selected, high quality ingredients in Purina® Dog Chow® brand Dog Food Complete & Balanced provide 100% of the essential nutrients your dog needs to help stay happy, healthy and satisfied throughout his long, healthy life."
 
Ok, so if Dog Chow accomplishes that, than why bother shelling out the bucks for Pro Plan selects? They are not marketing Dog Chow as an economical alternative.
 
My point was to rebut the statement that only the holistic companies are formulating products based on consumer demands.  Purina was the pioneer in formulating pet foods based on consumer demand and market research, with the food coloring, cute shapes and slices in gravy.  Tell me, what beneficial purpose does any of that serve for your dog?  It's to please the human of course!  Now the most recent step they are taking to please the consumer is hopping on the holistic bandwagon, which I think ultimately is a good thing, thanks to the companies who formulated foods on the ridiculous notion that ingredients matter.

I'm also a true believer in that you cannot possibly know that your dog is "doing well" on any food unless you have the magical ability to foresee the future.

Then you don't know if your dog is any healtheir than mine either.  Nobody does.  All we can do is look at coats, teeth, ears, eyes, physicals, blood work, energy level, etc and decide for ourselves.  And when they drop dead of a heart attack at 12, 13 etc, there is no possible way to know if it was because of the food they eaten their entire life--without a day of being sick--or just the natural process of getting old, body parts wearing out.  That happens no matter what you feed.
 
Consumer demand often creates things that are no better, but satisfy the customer.  I don't know that Chunky Soup is any more nutricious or better for you than the plain old condensed kind, it isn't advertised as being better, just having the chunks people want.  I have never seen it written that the Selects are any better than the Chunky, just that it is what people wanted.  Do people who eat the Select get more nutirtion out of it or just pay more for a fancier soup?  Campbells didn't come out with Chunky because the condensed wasn't good, and then the Selects because the Chunky wasn't good--it was done because there was a market for it and people willing to pay more for it
 
 

Ha...tell that to my neighbor across the street who is the president of a chemical company drives a porsche that he feeds Dog Chow because he can't afford anything else!

Here is what Purina says about its Dog Chow line

"The carefully selected, high quality ingredients in Purina® Dog Chow® brand Dog Food Complete & Balanced provide 100% of the essential nutrients your dog needs to help stay happy, healthy and satisfied throughout his long, healthy life."

Ok, so if Dog Chow accomplishes that, than why bother shelling out the bucks for Pro Plan selects? They are not marketing Dog Chow as an economical alternative.

My point was to rebut the statement that only the holistic companies are formulating products based on consumer demands. Purina was the pioneer in formulating pet foods based on consumer demand and market research, with the food coloring, cute shapes and slices in gravy. Tell me, what beneficial purpose does any of that serve for your dog? It's to please the human of course! Now the most recent step they are taking to please the consumer is hopping on the holistic bandwagon, which I think ultimately is a good thing, thanks to the companies who formulated foods on the ridiculous notion that ingredients matter.

 
First Class (you pay more) and Coach class on an airline.  First class gets you more drinks, bigger seats, etc, but it doesn't get you where you are going any faster.You both end up at the destination at the same time.  The different classes are consumer things.  And from my flying days, coach class isn't as likely to get off the plane drunk!
 
I never read anywhere that purina didn't care about ingredients, in fact the opposite.  And just because they are making different foods leaving out some ingredients, adding ohers does not mean the original is not good, simply they are going with the flow and what  some people want.
 
It isn't always money either, tho sometimes it is.  I feed my dogs what works best for them.  I could go a lot cheaper, i could go a lot more expensive, but i won't unless what I feed them stops working.
 
 

I agree Sandra,  I'm just pointing out that it is nonsensical to criticize some companies for doing one thing, and then to praise products made to emulate the ones that you criticize.  That's all.

I agree Sandra, I'm just pointing out that it is nonsensical to criticize some companies for doing one thing, and then to praise products made to emulate the ones that you criticize. That's all.

But seriously...what was the point in saying that?

ORIGINAL: papillon806

I agree Sandra, I'm just pointing out that it is nonsensical to criticize some companies for doing one thing, and then to praise products made to emulate the ones that you criticize. That's all.

But seriously...what was the point in saying that?

 
I was responding to this statement:
 
If it was such a horrible ingredient, why did all of these wonderful holistic companies include it in the first place, don't they research the ingredients they put into there food, don't they know what they are doing?  They removed it not for some honorable reason, but quite simply to increase sales. 
 
Geez, never mind.  I guess I'm just not doing a good job explaining myself today, must have been the week-long vacation I just came back from. [&o]

I guess that I just believe that, even if there's little harm in those ingredients, but there's some concern, why would you opt for food that contains them, rather than food that doesn't?

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

I guess that I just believe that, even if there's little harm in those ingredients, but there's some concern, why would you opt for food that contains them, rather than food that doesn't?

Like I said before....because nothing else has worked for my dog and I have not found any cause for conern in the ingredients mentioned based on my own research and resources.  

Someone else on this forum, under a different topic, brought up that a pancrease forum she belongs to  indicates that more and more cases of pancreaitis is cropping up and she, and I guess others, on that forum are beginning to wonder if it is the grainless high end foods that could be causing the problem.  Maybe she will see this and post more about it. 
 
I hvae no idea and my only though is maybe some of it is to rich for some dogs.  I know it didn't agree at all with golden boy, Buck.

I guess we'll know if grain free kibble is the answer to canine longevity and good health in about 8-10 years from now since it really is experimental.  Because of my large breed dog who is now a senior, I'm sticking with a lower protein/fat traditional diet.

forgot to mention my friend's dog was eating chicken soup food and came down with a case of pancreatitisand the protein/fat level was only 24/14 and the dog then went on the hill's rx diet for pancreatitis.  her vet said it was all the meat protein in the chicken soup that caused it. I'm sure grain free will work for a lot of dogs though as long as people won't over feed.