Good report for ProPlan salmon formula

I have always believed this.Every thing wears out.  You can keep your car in the garage when not in use, never go over 50mph, get it servicec regular.y, keep it washed and wasxed, run top oil and gas--and still as it ages things are going to go wrong.  the same applies to the human body, to any living creature's body, to any machinery.
 
And believe me, no matter if you buy the cheapest dog food or the most expensive, there is no garurantee that it is as listed, that it doesn't contain unlisted drugs that were used before they got the product.  my husband a truck driver, hauls this stuff he and the other drivers call Miracle Growth to chicken places--he named two very well known, but i will not list them.  It is mixed in with chicken feed and fed to new hatchlins who will grow so fast they are ready for market in just a very short time.  I have no idea if any of those chickens end up in my dogs kibble, or in the chicken stew i home cook for them
 
I just read on AOL the other day about cantaloups coming from Mexico that were irrigated with river water that sewer lines empty into.  it talked about other foods as well.  And one thing we learned with all the food recalls--food that claimed to only use USA grown products were found to be getting stuff from China, etc.  Products were used in some foods and were not listed.  I just don't believe there is any way you can be 100% sure., even 75% sure that you are getting what you think you are getting--or getting something you don't think you are getting.
 
And I believe my dogs are in more danger from vax, heartworm preventative, flea stuff, emmissions from all the cars on the highway, stuff put in the air by DuPont, OxyChem and Reynonds 5 miles up the road, than i am some preservative in their food.

Eagle Pack has both of the necessary permits; Department of Transporatation as well as the Coast Guard permit, and I know some other companies use ethoxyquin free fish as well.
ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

 
Could you post a list of the companies that you know that use ethoxyquin free fish ?  

So why is it banned from foods intended for human consumption if it's such a wonderful thing to add to fish

It is approved for human consumption and used to preserve spices. If it is such a bad thing why is it approved for both human and pet consumption, if you are eating paprika or numerous other spices, you can bet you are eating ethoxyquin. You have studies where it was giving at huge dosages, and then determined that at these huge dosages it was toxic.  Water ingested in huge dosages is toxic and will cause death.  Again with virtually any ingredeint listed in dog food, if it is given in huge dosages, it will end up being toxic or a carcinogen, that should not be a surprise.

Recent ethoxyquin questions have popped up once again and it is just one of innumerable times it has come up in the canine world. It's akin to the Good Times virus hoax, or the Neiman Marcus cookie recipe or the fact that Microsoft is buying the Vatican. All of them are equally truth-based (as in... not) and all are based on the simple accusation or hoax by a single person snowballing into a rumor of worldwide and epic proportions. Monsanto has paid dearly for this misplaced rumor and has even had to fund two entirely separate research studies to disprove the purported "facts" of the harmfulness of ethoxyquin.
The facts: there has simply been no scientific evidence demonstrating any negative side effects of ethoxyquin in pet foods. The original story was an unfounded anecdotal incident from a single breeder that has snowballed into an urban myth (and obviously an international one too). The breeder had a problem with one of her litters and had nothing to blame it on except ethoxyquin. How she or anyone else determined that it was the ethoxyquin that was the causative agent of her pups' deformities is unclear. Her anecdotal accusations were published in a dog club newsletter and the rest, as they say, is history.
Ethoxyquin has since been blamed for a myriad of problems - none of which has ever been proven. Ask anyone that insists that they would never feed a dog food containing ethoxyquin to their dog exactly what the problem with it is, what effects or exact harm it causes, and what mechanism it works by. Inevitably they won't be able to tell you. Most folks simply know that it's "bad".
The FDA has approved ethoxyquin not only for animal consumption but human consumption as well. It's actually in quite a few human food products (paprika being the most notable) yet no one ever complains about people eating it or boycotting human products that contain the chemical. The argument that the FDA actually requires it to be labeled as a "poison" is utter nonsense, as the concentration of harmful levels of ethoxyquin are several orders of magnitude above those included in pet products. Even aspirin is a "poison" if taken at a high enough dose.

ORIGINAL: kennel_keeper

Here is a list of negative effects of menadione on the body.

causes cytotoxicity in liver cells
causes formation of radicals from enzymes of leucocytes, with the consequence of cytotoxic reactions
considerably weakens the immune system
possible mutagenic effects
damages the natural vitamin K cycle
has no effect on coumarin derivatives, which are often present in commercial food due to mold contamination (toxic when ingested)
causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses
disturbs the level of calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body, which is an important factor fibrinolysis
is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K
builds up in tissue and has been detected in eggs, meat and milk of animals supplemented with menadione derivatives
causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes
causes allergic reactions and eczema"

With a little alterations, this list could describe ANY ingredient.
You could pick ANY ingredient and come up with a list of negatives! Also, how do we know that some of these better foods that we're feeding or raw/homecooked for that matter, won't show SOME form of complications 8, 10, or 12 years down the road. I suppose, in these cases, we will say that our dog that developed cancer or renal failure was predisposed because of some genetic factor. We certainly won't blame it on the high priced food we've researched, preach about, and defended for so many years.

I have faith that Jenna has done enough research and has enough education on this subject, to make an informed decision that she can feel comfortable with, regardless of public opinion.

So why is it that most premium foods ( not supermarket stuff) has rfemoved menadione from their ingredients long ago? 

I pretty much want to stay out of this particular discussion, however, I *might* point out that most of us do not eat a bowl or two of paprika on a daily basis.  The amount of paprika ingested by most humans over the course of a year is probably exceeded by the dog food consumed by a dog in just one day.  Many times over.
 
I think it makes a difference when you are discussing acceptable levels of something to make apples to apples comparisions, not watermelon to grapes......

I pretty much want to stay out of this particular discussion, however, I *might* point out that most of us do not eat a bowl or two of paprika on a daily basis. The amount of paprika ingested by most humans over the course of a year is probably exceeded by the dog food consumed by a dog in just one day.

 
I was replying to the statement that it was banned from human consumption, which was clearly untrue, and citing one example although there are others. It is also allowable in pet food at .75 ppm again a small amount, and it has been proven safe at that amount. 

So why is it that most premium foods ( not supermarket stuff) has rfemoved menadione from their ingredients long ago?

If it was such a horrible ingredient, why did all of these wonderful holistic companies include it in the first place, don't they research the ingredients they put into there food, don't they know what they are doing?  They removed it not for some honorable reason, but quite simply to increase sales.  The companies that removed it market to people that want all natural and holistic ingredients and menodione is synthetic. It is actually an expensive ingredient, if someone starts a campaign saying remove that expensive ingredient or we won't buy your product, what are you going to do? It has been in used in all kind of animal feeds for over 60 years, show me evidence of all these dogs dying from it.

I was replying to the statement that it was banned from human consumption, which was clearly untrue, and citing one example although there are others. It is also allowable in pet food at .75 ppm again a small amount, and it has been proven safe at that amount.

If it was such a horrible ingredient, why did all of these wonderful holistic companies include it in the first place, don't they research the ingredients they put into there food, don't they know what they are doing? They removed it not for some honorable reason, but quite simply to increase sales. The companies that removed it market to people that want all natural and holistic ingredients and menodione is synthetic. It is actually an expensive ingredient, if someone starts a campaign saying remove that expensive ingredient or we won't buy your product, what are you going to do? It has been in used in all kind of animal feeds for over 60 years, show me evidence of all these dogs dying from it.

[sm=bravo.gif]

I agree that most anything can be toxic, or cause bad problems, in high enough doses and perfectly safe in small doses.  I give my golden with enlarged heart chamber a baby asprin every other day (vet told me to do this) and it doesn't hurt her in the least.  But what would happen if she ate the entire bottle at once.  She would be dead.    I saw a beautiful husky on Emergency vet die because it got into it's owners purse and ate a bottle of diet pills high in caffiene and the caffiene killed the dog. One or two and he would have been okay, to many and it killed him. 
 
I know most, if not all, dog food nutritionist say not to buy food with such  & such and such &  such and this, that and yonder in it.  poeple read it over and over and assume these "experts" are right on the money, know everything for dead sure and decide they don't want any of those ingredients because Dr. Z or Jane Doe says they are back for your dog.  Dog food makers say "Ah, we can draw a lot of people to our food by leaving out this, that and younder." and start making food that way. 
 
 

There are a couple of ingredients that i dont like in proplan but overall i think its a solid food. I see many dogs do really well on it. Some of the best dogs ive seen all the way around were on half home cooked/half proplan.

There is no way you can tell if your dog is "doing well" on a particular diet; you can only tell if they are "doing badly".   I just don't understand why, since there are so many different dog foods available these days, why pick one with a questionable ingredient?  the ingredient in question has not been proven to be safe to feed to a dog every day for ten years.   
 
My dogs get a wide variety of foods. Even if some of these foods do contain toxins they at least aren't being exposed every single day to the same toxin.

I just don't understand why, since there are so many different dog foods available these days, why pick one with a questionable ingredient?

 
Because I have tried almost every food that looks "perfect" on paper and none of them work well for my dog?

Just to reply to the OP...my handler friend has some client dogs that are on this food...Dobes in the main, and she says they look GREAT and boy do they! Coats and muscle tone, just lovely looking dogs. She does raw for her own dogs, but said she's been impressed by every dog she's seen that's fed this formulation.

The amount of paprika ingested by most humans over the course of a year is probably exceeded by the dog food consumed by a dog in just one day.  Many times over.

 
LOL Glenda...unless you are Hungarian! OT but Paprika is pretty common in many ethic foods from what I understand.

There is no way you can tell if your dog is "doing well" on a particular diet; you can only tell if they are "doing badly". I just don't understand why, since there are so many different dog foods available these days, why pick one with a questionable ingredient? the ingredient in question has not been proven to be safe to feed to a dog every day for ten years. [/quote
 
Okay, if you can't tell your dog is doing well on a particular diet, you can only tell if they are doing badly, just how do you know your dogs are doing better on your chosen diet food than mine or papillion or losinsusan or mikej or Ron2' s dogs--or anyone elses dogs for that matter--on my/their choice of food.  We have dogs that live to or past life expectancy, have lovely coats, lots of energy, great vet reports and blood work, very few health problems outside of what is considered breed prone problems (allergies, hot spots, thyroid, ear infectins, some eye problems, hip problems, etc.) 
 
I have read many posts here where dogs on your prefered foods had problems.  Dogs on my prefered food had problems.    It just shows no one food works for all dogs.  And i do believe most of us, if not all, knows the healthy condition of our dogs no matter what food they are on.