Pit Bulls break in home

 Everytime the focus is shifted away from the real problem (irresponsible owners) and placed on the victim, false identification of breed, dishonest media etc. IMO it damages the whole credibility of the fact that it is about the owners of the dogs, not the media, not the victim, not the fence, not the doggy door.

I agree with this,,,but everytime the focus is shifted from the irresponsible owners...its on the dogs.  Somehow, it seems the media only blames the dogs and doesn't seem to care about the irresponsible owners.

 

ORIGINAL: dyan

I agree with this,,,but everytime the focus is shifted from the irresponsible owners...its on the dogs.  Somehow, it seems the media only blames the dogs and doesn't seem to care about the irresponsible owners.

I don't see where you are getting this. The press reported what the dogs did, and it reported how they happened to be able to be running at large. It's the people reading the account that will decide where to assign blame. So far in this thread we've had posters assign blame to the dogs, to the owners, or to the victim who was foolish enough not to live in a bunker and who tried to protect her friend. All that's left now is for someone to assign blame to the sheltie for provoking the attacking dogs, and someone to claim that there are just as many Swedish Vallehunds breaking into houses and attacking the resident dogs and any humans stupid enough to try to protect them, but gosh darn it, the press just refuses to print any stories about all those rampaging Vallehunds, and this thread will be complete.

Nowhere in ANY of my posts did i say i thought the woman who was attacked was at fault. Nowhere did i say that the pits should have been running around, looking for a JRT snack. I was referring to people claiming that every post about pit bulls was "defending" them. I was just stating that i think the situation of the attack should be looked at as well. I'm pretty dang sure that if a golden retriever attack was posted, then everyone would be wanting to view the situation. But, if the attack is from a dreaded pit bull--it's obvious the pit bull was blood thirsty.
 
And no, dog aggression is not okay with me. I have a dog that can be dog aggressive sometimes...i control this. Owners are to blame for not being able to keep an aggressive dog in. I don't give a crap what breed it is, or what they were bred to do--it's still the owner's responsibility, bar none.
 
Basically, all i am saying is that i'm tired of so-called dog lovers pretty much catalyzing BSL. sorry, but i don't want to live in a world where i will only be allowed to own a yorkie.
 
 

ORIGINAL: dyan

I agree with this,,,but everytime the focus is shifted from the irresponsible owners...its on the dogs.  Somehow, it seems the media only blames the dogs and doesn't seem to care about the irresponsible owners.



I don't see where you are getting this.

 
I am speaking in general. 
Most often when there are PB stories..the focus is the dogs. Everyone walks away feeling hate for the PBs. I want the focus to be where it should be, and that is on the people that own these dogs. Because in the end it is truely their fault because in the very least...they were not responsible for their dog that attacked.

ORIGINAL: buster the show dog 

Over and over and over pit bull fanciers defend the breed by claiming that they aren't people aggressive, "only" dog aggressive, as if merely being a menace to other people's pets is a trivial issue. What people should be focusing on from this incident isn't whether the evil media mistook whether the pits entered the house through an unlocked pet door or through an open sliding door, but what problems can arise when large powerful tenacious dogs specifically bred to be dog aggressive are readily available to anyone who wants to adopt one from the box of cute puppies in the mall parking lot.

Total nonsense.  People on this board have tried to point out to Bob and likeminded folk that human aggression and dog aggression are not the same thing.  There is pretty much unanimous agreement among pitbull appreciators on idog that dog aggression is pits MUST be controlled, and that many many people are not fit to own pitbulls. 

Pitbulls are at the malls *because* the media portrays them as total Rambo dogs.  Not just the news media, although they certainly play a part. 

Those of us on idog who protest the myth of the vicious pitbull also believe strongly in respecting a pitbull's drive and power, and being a responsible owner.

Those of us on idog who protest the myth of the vicious pitbull also believe strongly in respecting a pitbull's drive and power, and being a responsible owner.

 
Very well said! and i couldn't agree more. A pit in the wrong hands could be disaster...but in the right hands i think they are amazing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Snownose
Too bad the woman didn't have a way to defend herself or the JRT.......another good reason to keep a 9mm Glock in the house like I do.

Uh, the woman did have a gun and attempted to use it. For some reason, she was unable to use it effectively - gun faild to fire, poor aim, couldn't get the safety off, wasn't loaded, who knows? So, now I suppose the response will be, well, too bad the woman didn't have military training so that she would be able to adequately defend herself at all times. And why wasn't she living in a concrete bunker? And why didn't she have an even bigger more powerful dog to defend her from dogs breaking into her home? Anything but address the really hard question of what should be done to limit the availability of large powerful dogs that are deliberately bred to be dog aggressive to people who are no where near competent to deal with this type of dog.

 
 
I missed the part where she had a gun....sorry.....
I was taught by my Dad( ok....you got me ...military Dad) to handle a gun, one should be educated properly on handling a gun if one desires to have one....I would not hesitate to shoot an intruder of any kind, be it human or animal.

Pitbulls are at the malls *because* the media portrays them as total Rambo dogs. Not just the news media, although they certainly play a part.

Those of us on idog who protest the myth of the vicious pitbull also believe strongly in respecting a pitbull's drive and power, and being a responsible owner.

 
 
When did it become super cool to own a vicious pitbull?
 
By nature a GSD will kick a pitbull's behind if not trained...only because a GSD has natural way of protecting it's territory.....so....like I said....when did it become popular to own a pitbull and making it a fighting dog or vicious?
I must have missed when all that took place....all of a sudden it was noticable in certain neighborhoods......where I live there isn't a pitbull within a few miles.

When did it become super cool to own a vicious pitbull?

By nature a GSD will kick a pitbull's behind if not trained...only because a GSD has natural way of protecting it's territory.....so....like I said....when did it become popular to own a pitbull and making it a fighting dog or vicious?
I must have missed when all that took place....all of a sudden it was noticable in certain neighborhoods......where I live there isn't a pitbull within a few miles.

I live in a sort of suburban area...and pit bulls are not kept around here to be 'cool'.  But go into some areas in the nearest large city (Boston) and that's where the "macho" pits are.  Just because it's not evident in a certain area doesn't mean it's not a trend elsewhere. 

ORIGINAL: Nikki_Burr

.....  Just because it's not evident in a certain area doesn't mean it's not a trend elsewhere. 

Interestingly, pit bulls may be a trend even in those areas where they aren't evident. A few days ago I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who happens to be a veterinarian at a clinic. When I asked her how life was going at the clinic she replied that they had recently contracted to do the executions (ok, she called them euthanasia's) at the county animal shelter. This county has one largish tourism-based town and is very rural otherwise, so thankfully, the numbers of dogs killed weekly isn't as huge as in some of the larger urban shelters. I swear, I didn't ask her a thing about breeds, but she commented that it was, in her words "weird" that most of the dogs that were executed were pit bulls. What was weird about that, from her perspective, is that their clinic, which is by far the largest vet facility in the county only has "a couple" pit bulls as clients. And, she belongs to a local dog training club and teaches classes there, but she says she hasn't seen a pit bull there in years. So, she, a pretty dog-aware person, had assumed that pit bulls just weren't very popular in her area. And yet, it turns out that they make up about three quarters of the dogs that end up on a one way trip to the animal shelter.

As annoyed as I am about my freedom to walk my dogs being curtailed by the dog aggressive pit bull that currently roams my neighborhood, I think my veterinarian friend's observation points to the much larger problem - there are just too many of them, by orders of magnitude. When there are so many, it is no wonder that they so very frequently end up in the dubious possession of folks who are more likely to eventually dump them at the pound or turn them loose on the streets than they are to take them to the vets or to enroll them in a training class.

In this thread, there have been many many posts about how the incident of the dogs entering a neighbor's house and attacking the dog and the woman who attempted to save him is the fault of the owners, not the dogs. Fair enough. The pit bulls in this situation are the product of their breeding and their upbringing. They didn't ask to be born, and they didn't ask to be owned by someone who was apparently well meaning but totalling ignorant of what damage they were capable of and inclined to inflict. But in another thread asking what can be done about pit bull owners, the immediate response was to proclaim breed specific legislation to be bad; to declare that pit bulls are rarely human aggressive, "only" dog aggressive; to blame the media for how pit bulls are portrayed, to claim that the problems with pit bulls are no worse than those with cocker spaniels, yada yada yada. Beyond vaguely saying that owners of pit bulls ought to be "educated", and proposing life time jail sentences for being "irresponsible" owners, almost no one has actually addressed specific suggestions of what can be done to reduce the number of pit bulls in the ownership of thugs, or well meaning but clueless owners. So, for all of those folks who are now claiming (rightly, in my opinion) that the problem isn't the dogs, it's the owners, what do you propose to do about the owners? There is a vast territory between breed specific bans and pretending that every breed should be treated as being equally problematic. Let's explore that territory.

Buster, pibbles have been around for a long time. They have only been a "problem" relatively recently.  The problem is the image they have, and the type of owner attracted to them right now.  Young males, who admire the "toughness" of pits but have no real idea of the dog they are dealing with, have come to think of pits as the dog of choice.  Hence the overbreeding, and the breeding of dogs with poor temperaments. 

I don't know how to reverse this trend.  And when pits are out, another breed will be in.   Honestly, there are too many badly bred pitbulls, and too many unqualified owners.  I wish I had a grand idea. 

Pits are awesome dogs - the love they radiate is mind blowing.  BUT BUT BUT they do have drawbacks, and I will never downplay those.  I will probably never own a pit because of those drawbacks.  They don't match my lifestyle. 

Sigh. I wish there was an easy answer.

When did it become super cool to own a vicious pitbull?

By nature a GSD will kick a pitbull's behind if not trained...only because a GSD has natural way of protecting it's territory.....so....like I said....when did it become popular to own a pitbull and making it a fighting dog or vicious?

I'm not positive that this is true. I think the GSD would sure try though.  I remember years ago I had a Dane/Shepherd mix named Cindy... she was always with me and never had to be tied up. When I cut my front grass she used to go lay under the shade of a lone tree on the lawn. Down the street from me was a pregnant PB, the owner would walk a few miles two times a day past my house.  The lady caught my attention as she was walking by one day...warning me " You better keep your dog over there...if it comes by my dog..I don't care how big your dog is, mine will kill it in a second!"
THAT warning was my first clue to the real Pit Bull. They (in the end) were obviously raising PBs to sell,,,keeping them in shape.  I had heard they had treadmills for them and all..and that was way back before I knew much about them.  My guess around 1980 ish.   
At about that same time there was a documentary on TV, maybe the "60 Minutes Show" on PBs...what they are, what to look for and how to report those fighting rings.    I was pretty shocked at that time.  They showed how strong the PB was, had the dog hanging on to something with its teeth, up in a tree (that they filmed)...showing us just how powerful their jaws are.  
I work in a vet clinic now.  We see a lot of bully types.  Many times I am concerned by WHAT brings them in, often people that I feel in the end are not going to be very resposible for that dog.  They are a status symbol to the wrong people.  While  that same thing was true of different breeds in the past... I can't see how it can ever get worse than this breed. The fact that they are used for fighting...the fact that they are known to attack other dogs and not for protection reasons....I can't see it getting worse than this.
I too, sure wish there was an answer to the growing amout of bully pups being born and end up in the wrong hands and eventually being PTS.  There ARE too many dogs (of all breeds) for the amount of homes...and the growing amount of bully pups are making it so much worse. There are more people that are afraid to have a PB than there are people that will take a pup and bring it up in a responsible way.

I live in a college town and far too many pits and pit mixes end up at the shelter here.  I believe it is because the young college students (and predominantly the male students), usually out on their own for the first time want a dog, and a "tough" one at that.  It's a "look what I have" status thing, except like a lot college students, they don't realize the responsibility that goes with ownership of any dog, esp. ones like pits.  They also don't spend the money to train them or spay/neuter them.  Their idea of exercise is to let the dog out to roam the neighborhood while they are partying or sleeping a night of partying off.  Then the student moves to an apartment where they can't have the dog and guess where it ends up?  Yep, the shelter.  There are so many pits in this town you can buy one for $25.00.
 
I don't know what the solution is, but hype and sensationlism isn't it.  Based on the experience I related earlier in this thread, I was against pits for many years.  Funny thing was that, when I was a kid, we had a GSD that was dog and human aggressive (a stray w/issues, long story), but I never felt that way about GSDs.
 
Knowing what I know now, the pits that attacked Shari were very dog aggressive, also obvious because they constantly fought with each other.  We had not provoked the attack at all, we were just walking by (hard to avoid since we had to pass the house to come or go to ours).  Did I blame the dogs?  No.  Did I blame the owners?  Absolutely.  They had dog-aggressive dogs that they were not managing, and had not provided a sturdy enough fence to prevent them from breaking out.  Shari was not the first dog they broke out and attacked.  I did file a report at the time of the incident with AC, which was not the first report about those dogs either.  AC cited them for being out of their yard without leashes, checked that the vaccines were current, and gave the owner 10 days to repair the fence.  We moved about two months later, so I don't know what happened after that.

As annoyed as I am about my freedom to walk my dogs being curtailed by the dog aggressive pit bull that currently roams my neighborhood,

 
Have you called animal control? You should be able to walk your dogs without being terrorized. I would call AC and carry direct stop.

 You should be able to walk your dogs without being terrorized. I would call AC and carry direct stop.

 
I DO carry direct stop...but have a question.  While I have not seen PBs in my neighborhood that are running loose... I do carry it. I have a GSD named April (what a sweet name for her) that absolutely HATES Bubblegum and the owner often has her out without a lease.  He is always there...and always smiles and says "hi" to me...kind of to tell us "don't worry!"  BUT I have heard people say that they have seen him not have complete control over April,,,and since she hates Bubby so much (they have driven past us in a car and she was barking horribly at us with her head hanging out the back seat window) I no longer go past their house unless I'm pulling had hurrying Bubby past, but I got Direct Stop just for that reason,,,in case I really need it. BUT I often wondered...would it really stop April?   So for all that people say about PBs not minding pain when attacking,,,would it stop them?