Pit Bulls break in home

Couldn't agree with you more Dgriego!!! Nicely put!![sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bow2.gif][sm=bravo.gif] Anne.
 
I am also agianst BSL.

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

ORIGINAL: Benedict

- the owner did not put proper measures in place to contain a dog they knew was inherently "mean".

Very true. That's basically what I'm saying- that the owner is definitely responsible for the dog attack, but that he may or may not have actually caused the dogs to become aggressive.

 
 The young man who was shown as the "owner" was an 18 year old, only owned one of the dogs (the female) and was watching the other dog (the male) for a friend. Apologies to all the 18 year olds out there that may be responsible pet owners, but I have not met one that I would consider mature enough to own a cat, let alone a large breed with a lot of drive(I have one at home and he has lots of friends so I have known a few up close and personal). The house that he dogs broke out of  had a very flimsy fence (it is shown in one of the clips) and he said that the male was chained in the yard and the female was loose. The house that they broke into did not have a fence that I could see.
 Most likely the jack russell that was staying at the home was outside in view of the pit bulls, ran inside and they gave chase. If the dogs had been kept exersied and handled by someone who had trained them well chances are they could have encountered this jack russell with nothing bad happening. It was just a wrong combination put together at the wrong time.  
 

Most likely the jack russell that was staying at the home was outside in view of the pit bulls, ran inside and they gave chase

  I was thinking the same thing.

And that is a natural instinct with Pit's to give chase because of their high prey drive. Unfortunate circumstances, flimsy fencing, and an inexperienced owner, bad combination all the way around.
 
Having the one dog tied by a chain is not a good way to keep any dog let alone a Pit. It tell's me this dog didn't have any training. To include his female who was loose in the yard. Dogs left to their own device like this get into trouble and can cause trouble. Because they are bored, have no training, and are not well socialized dogs. What is your thoughts on this? Anyone but Bob. I have already formulated an opinion on Bob's view of things. But would like feed back from other knowledgible Pit Bull owners here.
 

Having the one dog tied by a chain is not a good way to keep any dog

 
And evidenced by the fact the dog escaped the chain in order to clear the crappy fence and head over to the neighbors house and do damage.
 

ORIGINAL: papillon806

Hey Bob, I suppose you also think we should also ban "rap music" and graphic movies to prevent violence in the schools, eh?

You struck a nerve here....*Content Removed* Previous Edit

So far I have only seen Bobsk8 say he wants where he lives and visits to be safe and free from reckless owners that have know DA and HA dogs, including Pitbulls.  I think that is fair.  The question was asked if Bobsk8 want the breed banned.  I am sure it would be helpful to other members if this position was known for sure and not assumed.

ORIGINAL: forpaws

Most likely the jack russell that was staying at the home was outside in view of the pit bulls, ran inside and they gave chase

  I was thinking the same thing.

And that is a natural instinct with Pit's to give chase because of their high prey drive. Unfortunate circumstances, flimsy fencing, and an inexperienced owner, bad combination all the way around.

 
That's what I thought at first too, but that's not how it happened. You MUST see the extended interview video on this page:
[linkhttp://www.kirotv.com/news/13943140/detail.html]http://www.kirotv.com/news/13943140/detail.html[/link]
 
The pits had been after her service dog before. The dog (and I think the JRT) had escaped the pits by going through the sliding door on other occasions. The owners of the female dog had repaired the fence on more than one occasion because of the pits getting out and going after other dogs.  The pits knew the house door was there and on that particular night the poor woman forgot to "lock" the door so that it couldn't be pushed open.[&o]
 
Both dogs were in her room when the pits entered the house and came looking for them. The service dog ran away and got outside which is why he/she is uninjured. The woman fought the two pits because they were trying to get the JRT. I believe she said she tried to put him in a closet to protect him and when they got the JRT out they  ripped him apart in front of her eyes. It broke my heart to listen to this woman. I couldn't finish the video.
 
These dogs were clearly a problem, the owners (a mom PLUS her son---the kid doesn't live alone) knew the dogs were aggressive. (They gave the hurt woman their phone number so if the dogs got out she could call them[:@])
 
BTW She doesn't support banning OR killing all PBs---but she does want the two that did this put down.
 
Check out the extended interview with her.
 

It's obvious the pits were a roblem in the neighborhood , I wonder if the AC was ever called on this problem.
The fence appeared to be very flimsy, and not enough to keep large powerful dogs on the property.
 
Too bad the woman didn't have a way to defend herself or the JRT.......another good reason to keep a 9mm Glock in the house like I do.

The pits had been after her service dog before. The dog (and I think the JRT) had escaped the pits by going through the sliding door on other occasions.... on that particular night the poor woman forgot to "lock" the door so that it couldn't be pushed open.

That's reading into what was actually said.  Which was that the woman regularly left her sliding glass door open for her own dog to come and go, and on that night she forgot to lock it.  Does not say she remembered to close the door, but forgot to lock it.  Simply said she forgot to lock it.  Saying the dogs pushed it open is reading into it.

Also, the report says her own Sheltie escaped through the open glass door, but the neighbor's JRT was staying with her and the pits went after him.  She says she threw the dog into the closet to protect him and the dogs continue to pursue HIM.  She tried to get them away/out and during that time is when they turned their attention to her in the middle of the melee. 

It's horrific that the poor JRT died that way, that the woman and her other dog were traumatized, and that the neighborhood as a whole is also traumatized.  (imagine the conversations btwn scared kids and their equally scared parents - and rightfully so!)  In this circumstance, the resident pit who had been known to escape repeatedly should be confiscated from the owners, imo.  I think some other investigation should go into the visiting pit who was also improperly contained.
 
And we can see from this one incident alone how the arguments that the media often gets it wrong ... well...you be the judge...
First the dogs broke in through a pet door and attacked the lady in her sleep.
NOW, the dogs got in through a (seemingly open, but some think pushed open?) sliding glass door and attacked the dog(s), waking the lady up resulting in her protecting the JRT and Sheltie and being attacked as a product of that involvement.
 
IMO, they should have gotten the full story straight before publishing it the first time.  But people are so hungry for sensational stories, that they just threw out what they had, it seems.

 Very sad video. I feel very sorry for the lady. I do not think there is any defense of the animals in question here. Sure the owner was  responsible, but the dogs should be put to sleep. She states that in the beginning she was angry and not afraid, while she was fighting to protect the Jack Russell. She also says that the female Pit began to attack her jumping at her arms and face and at this point she realized she was in trouble and became afraid.

This is one of the problems with the breeds that are bred to have resistance to pain. Kicking them and beating them when they are fully committed and in high drive does not affect the dog in the same manner as if it were a Dalmatian or even a Great Dane. Most dogs do not like pain and will retreat from it. The fighting breeds, some hunting breeds (large dangerous game breeds) and some working breeds (guardian types) do not react to pain like other dogs.

I have personal experience with this, our dog as a child attacked a Doberman that was visiting our house (he arrived in a car and owners got out with him on a leash) our dog attacked without any sound, went after this Doberman and I watched my father beat our dog almost senseless trying to get it to let the Doberman go. It was only when ours was almost unconscious that he was able to get the Doberman loose and get it back in its car. This was a dog that was wonderful with us kids. This is a dog that had a job and hunted regularly.

Personally I think that the message that needs to be preached here is that these dogs are not for just anyone. I think that shelters, who currently will sometimes even lie about a dogs breed in order to ensure it is adopted should instead be more responsible in placing these type dogs, even if that means you cannot place them all. Yes they can be wonderful pets, they can be great service dogs, they can be great hunting dogs but the bottom line is these dogs and other breeds similar to them are not for everyone! They are bred for a purpose, they are bred to work hard at that purpose and if you are going to own one you need to be able to provide and alternate purpose, if you are unable or unwilling to do so then you should not be surprised when your friendly wiggle butt Rover eats the neighbors dog, cat or god forbid child.

If they are going to be adopted out then the persons adopting them should be checked out and should be required to train the dog. There is an organization here in Albuquerque that provides free training to pit bulls. They rescue them, re-home them and require that they be trained and provide that training. Maybe responsible Pit Bull owners should look into organizing in their areas and trying to mirror this.

Even though we know the animals were in high drive and after their prey (JRT) they still did attack the women. That is inexcusable and I imagine it is undesirable in the breed. If bred to fight then one can assume there comes a point in the fight where the dogs must break away and any dog that turned on the person trying to break him away would not be desired in the fighting ring. One can also assume that dogs fighting would be in a state of high drive.
 
 Also I knowing that there is a strong possibility of being attacked if I interfere would still defend my dogs against an attack. I think the lady was very brave to try and protect the JRT. Her doing so probably caused the injuries she suffered but in her place I would have done the same and I do not believe that we can use that truth as an explanation to the public for what occurred.
  I also am a firm believer in a no-bite tolerance for these type dogs. My Hektor is not allowed even in play to place human flesh in his mouth nor is he allowed to place his teeth on human skin. One can work with a fear biting Chihuahua or an aggressive Shetland sheepdog to an extent. The larger bully types are just too risky to take the chance if they display any tendency to bite or attack people. If this owner had done the responsible thing, which is to realize that this dog was too much for him, was displaying behavior that was putting other dogs and people (the lady said the dog had bitten a child in the neighborhood) at risk and put the dog to sleep (again my opinion but any dog of this nature that bites a child is not worth keeping) then all of this would not have occurred.

It is a heartbreaking story.  The kid seems to want to do the right thing, but he shouldn't be allowed to own another dog for a long time-IMO. 
 
The victim, is a super sweet lady.  That extended video broke my heart-she knew the dogs names and used them when she could-to me that is the hallmark of a dog lover.  I'm sorry this happened.

Sorry, but i think that the situation surrounding an attack is always important. Walking by a dog and for no reason having it latch onto your neck is a little bit different than, say, coming into someone's house without knocking and getting attacked.

There's obviously some anti-pit bull people on this board. I just don't understand the point of posting about an attack everytime it happens, and wanting to start a huge debate. You don't like them, then don't get one.
 
 
ETA: my post says i was replying to Ed. I can't remember who i was replying to, whoever in the beginning was talking about always "defending" pits, when really people are just trying to look closer into the situation.
 
I know that if someone broke into my house, and Kaiser attacked them, i'm sure people who say it was because he was an "inherently mean" german shepherd.

Ridgeback
 
 I do not count defense of the home or the family as human aggression. In my post I am referring to a bite for no good reason. Defending my family is a good reason. I would not put my dog to sleep for defending in a break-in or attack.
 
People just walking in it would depend on who it is. A complete stranger is being stupid to walk in my house unannounced. If it is a friend or a child the dog should not attack. I have had neighborhood children run into my house with out knocking, the dogs bark, if they bit one I would not have them in my home.
 
 Now with that being said I do go out of my way to prevent this ever happening. I take them out in the neighborhood every day. The children know them by name and know that in the event one of the dogs is running at them they only need to yell "dogs name" and "sit". I take them to kids sports practices, they see kids running and jumping and moving fast all the time.

dgriego, i went back and checked and this is what i was referring to:
 
 
Always the same old Mantra after one of the attacks ,  it's the owners fault ,, it's the victims fault,   it's the media, the story sounds fishy, it's unfortunate, it's sad , yada, yada, yada.....  same old, same old..... Anything to deflect the blame of the attack away from  the dogs......



< Message edited by Bobsk8 -- 8/22/2007 10:24:32 AM >

I agree with what you said...I guess what i really meant is that some people think that everyone is just jumping to the pit bull's defense. I don't necessarily think that's true...i just think people are trying to figure out WHY the attack happened. It usually seems that the attack is NOT UNPROVOKED, but i feel like some people try to make it seem like pit bulls run around looking for someone to attack.

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep
I agree with what you said...I guess what i really meant is that some people think that everyone is just jumping to the pit bull's defense. I don't necessarily think that's true...i just think people are trying to figure out WHY the attack happened. It usually seems that the attack is NOT UNPROVOKED, but i feel like some people try to make it seem like pit bulls run around looking for someone to attack.

Well, in this case it appears that the pit bulls were running around looking for a DOG to attack. Is that ok with you? Several of the posts in this thread have pointed out that the pits were really "only" attempting to attack the JRT, and perhaps the sheltie if it hadn't managed to escape. Would it have been ok with everyone if the woman had just sensibly stood by and watched the JRT, and possibly her service dog, be ripped apart, without getting injured herself? Perhaps we could have had a heart warming ending where the pit bulls then "licked the woman to death" with their big slobbering kisses as she mourned the death of her canine friends.

Over and over and over pit bull fanciers defend the breed by claiming that they aren't people aggressive, "only" dog aggressive, as if merely being a menace to other people's pets is a trivial issue. What people should be focusing on from this incident isn't whether the evil media mistook whether the pits entered the house through an unlocked pet door or through an open sliding door, but what problems can arise when large powerful tenacious dogs specifically bred to be dog aggressive are readily available to anyone who wants to adopt one from the box of cute puppies in the mall parking lot.

ORIGINAL: Snownose
Too bad the woman didn't have a way to defend herself or the JRT.......another good reason to keep a 9mm Glock in the house like I do.

Uh, the woman did have a gun and attempted to use it. For some reason, she was unable to use it effectively - gun faild to fire, poor aim, couldn't get the safety off, wasn't loaded, who knows? So, now I suppose the response will be, well, too bad the woman didn't have military training so that she would be able to adequately defend herself at all times. And why wasn't she living in a concrete bunker? And why didn't she have an even bigger more powerful dog to defend her from dogs breaking into her home? Anything but address the really hard question of what should be done to limit the availability of large powerful dogs that are deliberately bred to be dog aggressive to people who are no where near competent to deal with this type of dog.

ORIGINAL:RidgebackGermansShep
There's obviously some anti-pit bull people on this board. I just don't understand the point of posting about an attack everytime it happens, and wanting to start a huge debate. You don't like them, then don't get one.

And how well did it work in this situation for the woman with the sheltie and the owner of the JRT to not "get one"? I'm sorry, but when I can't walk my own dogs in the neighborhood because of loose dog aggressive dogs, not getting one myself isn't the solution. And, knowing that they'll only attack me if I should ever be so bold as to try to walk my dogs when they are around and I foolishly try to protect them isn't an acceptable solution to the problem either.

People post about attacks on this forum because this is a dog discussion forum. I don't dislike pit bulls. I even once seriously considered getting a Staffie Bull, because I find them to be ridiculously charming. But, I want to live with multiple dogs and I don't want to live with the problems caused by dog aggression. If other people do, fine by me, as long as that doesn't create problems for others. But clearly, large numbers of seriously dog aggressive dogs do cause problems for others when those dogs are owned by people who aren't prepared to be extraordinarily vigilant. Posting about these attacks should make it clear that "don't get one" and "don't worry, he only wants to kill your pet, not you" aren't viable solutions to those problems. It shouldn't be fostering debate on whether snails might get into your house if you leave a dog door open at night, or fostering whining about whether the media correctly identified the type of door the attacking dogs entered.

As a total aside about leaving dog doors open I just read on another list I belong to about a woman who lost her two dogs in a fire when her house was struck by lightening and burned to the ground while she was away. Her first words to a friend when she informed her of her terrible loss were, "Dog doors. Get them." So, let's all stop blaming the woman in this story for not living in an impenetrable fortress, or obsessing over whether egress was through a pet door or a sliding door.