"But all I want is a healthy, happy family pet!"

 Generally I would say "adopt a mutt from a shelter then."  I think it's great when someone finds the right dog for them, goes to a breeder, is willing to pay the price for a well-bred beautiful dog.  But for someone who just wants a family pet, there are so many great lovely wonderful mutts in shelters.

 But that's obviously not what he wants, so I wouldn't have much to say really.  I don't know a thing about finding a good breeder (I know what to look for, but not even remotely how to start looking).  I'm too tied into rescue so I wouldn't ever get a purebred from anywhere other than a rescue.  It's too bad he's so convinced they're going to have a "bad" experience because they had one before.

.stacer.

The way I look at it is.....if you can't afford the initial $1000-$2000 range.....how are you going to be able to afford potential vet bills?  What if your dog has health problems?  What if your dog gets in a accident, etc?   

I can't afford $1000-2000 for a dog.  I think if we all had to pay that much for a dog, many of us wouldn't have one.  But I can afford vet bills and I'm saving up the money in case something major ever happens in the future.  Obviously if it happens before that time then I'll have to figure something out, but I think the hope with most people is that their dog will be generally healthy until late in life.

 And let's face it, even if someone CAN afford $2000 for a dog, vet bills can be beyond them.  Cancer treatments can be SERIOUSLY expensive.

Cita

 Well, you paid a lot for Nikon because he's show-quality, right? Wouldn't breeders sell their pet-quality animals for less?

No, most of the breeders I know (and I will be one of these) do not charge less/more for SQ versus PQ puppies, you put the same amount of work into both pups to make them sound, well adjusted and healthy animals (parents testing/stud fees, time/energy and socialization).  If I were to charge more, I'd probably do it with the PQ puppy, as 1. It's hard to find SQ homes and I'd co-own these pups.  PQ would be sold on a S/N contract where they'd get $$ back when they provide proof of the S/N.

When someone asks me about a "healthy pet,  I don't want to do all you do." I say if you want a healthy pet, reputable breeders are still the way to go. The vet bills on a BYB or PM pup can cost you many times what you invest of a healthy pup from a reputable breeder. Not to mention you will always have the support of your breeder with questions on/or future problems."  I have also been brutally honest "If you can't afford a $1500 dog do you feel you can keep up with the necessary vet bills, training and all that goes along with a new pup?  It's VERY expensive." Start ticking off expenses, wellness puppy plans, vax's, S/N, puppy classes, food, treats, crates, toys.

I agree with Cita "I think buying a dog is a really crummy time to start pinching pennies...  Penny-wise and pound-foolish, and all of that." Amen!!  How much is your peace of mind worth?

I think Gina's angle might be the way to go.  I don't disagree with you guys, but it's really hard to convince someone about health when in reality that doesn't pan out, at least not with this breed.  I can't answer why his BYB dog lived 16 years and why a well bred pup can have crippling hip dysplasia by 1 year.  We just don't know enough about the disorders common in the breed to thoroughly screen.  Excellent parents can throw dysplastic pups, Fairs can throw Excellent, etc.

Lani, that's exactly what I meant, unless there is an obvious "fault" with the pup they are all the same price.  After all, they are from the same parent and receive the same care, no?  But like you say a breeder might even be more inclined to give a deal to someone who IS actively showing and working the dog, because that's a better representation of the kennel and the dog could be valuable to the breeding program later on.  If the female is younger and is having her first litter (so we are not really sure what she is producing yet), then it will be cheaper but ALL the puppies will be cheaper.

crysania

.stacer.

The way I look at it is.....if you can't afford the initial $1000-$2000 range.....how are you going to be able to afford potential vet bills?  What if your dog has health problems?  What if your dog gets in a accident, etc?   

 

I can't afford $1000-2000 for a dog.  I think if we all had to pay that much for a dog, many of us wouldn't have one.  But I can afford vet bills and I'm saving up the money in case something major ever happens in the future.  Obviously if it happens before that time then I'll have to figure something out, but I think the hope with most people is that their dog will be generally healthy until late in life.

I have to agree with this. Our next dog will be from a breeder, most likely, and I will admit that I am having a hard time swallowing a $2000 price tag on a pet quality dog. The payoff, of course, is that they are health tested and the pups get a good start to life. I do NOT want to have to go through a bunch of remedial things (like lack of litter mate socialization) with the new pup like I have had to with our current 3 dogs. However, with 3 dogs, 3 cats, and 2 horses in our life, $2000 is the emergency fund for our animals, should something come up. We can (clearly) afford the expected day to day costs, plus the occasional unexpected (and usually exorbitant) vet costs, but I do have a hard time justifying spending $2K on a pup, especially in economic times as they are.

It probably doesn't help that I know a gal who has gotten her two last GSDs from reputable breeders - health tested and the whole bit. Her female was 5 when she already had surgery done on both hips for dysplasia. ACL repairs, elbow dysplasia, and another condition (can't remember what it is off the top of my head) have cropped up in the last 2 years as well. Her male (that she paid ~$4K for) was also health tested out the whazoo and was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia at 10 mos of age. Breeder said send him back for a refund, I'd rather euthanize him than have him out there representing my breeding. My friend, of course, did not send him back, had $2-3K worth of surgery done on him and he's fine. But hearing her horror stories makes even me hesitant to spend that kind of money on a pup, let alone your average Joe off the street. (It is also why I'm likely to stick with malinois rather than GSD, though some days I would welcome a break from the incessant no-off-switch attitude of the mal!)

I would give him a list of reputable breeders, talk about the lifetime support he can get from them, and encourage him to start developing a relationship with a few of them. Having those lines of communication open can make all the difference in the world when a breeder is willing to offer a pup at a steal of a price, for whatever reason (perhaps a little older of a pup that isn't going to make show prospect, maybe another buyer backed out, etc.). Is he looking to purchase right away, or is he willing to put in some leg work? If it is the latter, hopefully he can find a breeder who will work with him and get him the wonderful, healthy pet he is looking for.

I got my Tayla pretty much from the side of the road. One day at the kennel I used to work at, one of the other girls brought in this little black fuzz ball of a puppy and said the dog was on the side of the road with no one in sight. It was 6:30am and the puppy was filthy. So I took her in and my manager did the routine thing of dogs that come to us in this situation which is call animal control. Now normally animal control is there within a couple hours to get the dog we called about but this time they never showed. So after this puppy staying at our kennel for 2 and a half days I took her home. We kept our eyes our for anyone looking for a lost puppy but never saw any. So I kept her. I have had her since July 5, 2008. She was estimated at about 10 weeks when I took her to the vet. She had demodex mites. But as of now she is as healthy as can be. She goes to work with me everyday and we walk in the mornings. I added up her vet bills since her last visit just to see how much it has cost. I was curious. It was a little over $1500, that was just the vet. With as much food as she eats and toys she goes through, I have discovered even for a free puppy you spend alot. But she is completely worth it.

stormyknight

 Her male (that she paid ~$4K for) was also health tested out the whazoo and was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia at 10 mos of age. Breeder said send him back for a refund, I'd rather euthanize him than have him out there representing my breeding. My friend, of course, did not send him back, had $2-3K worth of surgery done on him and he's fine.

I can't stand when breeders do this.  IMO it knocks them off my "reputable" list.  To me a reputable breeder stands behind their DOGS, period, not their kennel name or the image they are trying to portray or only the dogs that turn out perfectly healthy.  As it stands, if anything genetic happens to Nikon, I am able to pick a "replacement" from a future litter (if I want) and would never have to return him or euthanize him in order to keep from voiding the contract.

 I feel like if all someone wants is a healthy happy family pet, they should go to the shelter or a rescue. Sorry, but there are too many dogs that need homes to buy a sub par dog from a BYB. I will only adopt or buy from a reputable breeder from now on, and i encourage others to do the same. I am okay with paying a lot of money for a dog (within reason). Josie was $1500, but that included ear cropping, tail docking, and dew claw removal. Plus, her parents were holtered, echoed, CERF'd, OFA hips and elbows, Vwd and thyroid tested...not to mention had their UKC/AKC champion titles which costs a lot of money to obtain. I talk to my breeder on a regular basis. If someone doesn't want to invest that kind of money, there are tons of breed specific rescues that will adopt an altered and up to date on shots dog for about $200.

 I think $1500 is eminantly reasonable when you are talking about that much being involved! Heck, I even think $2000 is reasonable there, and for breeds where a great deal of testing is the standard for a reputable breeder (off the top of my head? GSDs, goldens, Aussies)

But there are breeds where 'reputable' breeders perform little or no health testing and it is a once-in-a-lifetime thing per dog at a cost of maybe $25? $800 is PLENTY reasonable to budget for a pet.

Pwca

I *do* think there is a difference between $800 and $2000. I think $2000 is beginning to tip the scales of unreasonable, especially when the health testing done is really minimal.

But that's assuming health testing is the end-all and be-all.  For GSDs I am looking for solid working titles and not just the titles but I have to see at least one of the parents work before I make a decision.  I've probably already spent twice what my dog initially cost in one year on all the club training, seminar training, show entries, travel to and from each of these, all-breed club training (for socialization), etc.  Honestly I would rather own a mildly dysplastic dog that has a sound temperament and the drive that is correct (not what is currently acceptable) for the breed than a dog in "perfect" health that looks at a ball or sheep or helper with disinterest.

RidgebackGermansShep

 I feel like if all someone wants is a healthy happy family pet, they should go to the shelter or a rescue. Sorry, but there are too many dogs that need homes to buy a sub par dog from a BYB.

  Rescues and shelters are dogs are full of "sub par dogs from BYBs" though. It is sort of funny to knock BYB dogs as being "sub par" while trying to sway someone into getting a rescue dog. This guys doesn't "just" want a healthy, happy pet he always wants a GSd and wants a young puppy. He will mostly likely not find what he wants in a rescue. Why should he not have the dog he wants because he can't/won't pay $1500+ for a puppy? Are purebred puppies only for the elite and everyone else should settle for whatever is at the pound? I know everyone on this thread means well but honestly, saying things like this does not reflect well on purebred fanciers. I like well bred dogs for myself for a wide range of reasons and always try to educate people about the benefits of them.

  However, I don't think it is right to portray the situation as you will without a doubt get an unhelathy dog. A lot of people do get really nice, happy, healthy dogs from BYBs. If you portray the situation as only sickly, unhealthy "sub par" dogs come from BYBs you are losing credibility and coming off as insulting to anyone who has a BYB dog that is happy with them (such as the man in the OP). Not to mention shooting yourself in the foot since the vast majority of rescue and shelter dogs are from "sub par BYBs".

  My Collie came from what most anyone here would likely consider a BYB, although she did some health testing (CERFs). I wish I could find a collie that was as great as that dog, as he was everything a Collie should be and without the overdone show coat or head. He had obedience and agility titles, was my 4H dog and an all around good boy. I once looked at every "good" collie breeder's dogs in my area to find another Collie. I saw a lot of nice dogs with the typical sweet collie nature and love for humans but they were all lacking the character that mine had. I also don't care for the extreme heads or coats that a lot of show collies have. If I were to get another Collie, it would be from a well selected BYB and if need be, I would pay for the litter to be CERF'd. I no longer believe the type of Collie I want comes from current show breeders. With GSDs, I could and would get what I want from working line dogs. Athough a lot of people think working GSD breeders are "BYBs" too, since they don't get AKC CHs ont heir dogs.

  Where one chooses to get their dog is a personal choice, at least for now. The man in the OP sounds like a responsible owner and getting a BYB puppy isn't going to change that.

 I just don't believe in supporting someone who is not doing right by the breed. If someone wants to, that's fine by me. I have a BYB dog...i've had quite a few in my life. My  4 year old GSD probably wont be alive this time next year, my rhodesian ridgeback died before age 2, my JRT is seriously aggressive, and one JRT is sweet as pie. You never know.

If you go through a rescue you're not directly supporting a BYB, different story.

Liesje

He wants to come to our house to see all three dogs and get more info on breeders.

I would have him come and i would do 2 things:

1)Tell him that if he wants a dog from a breeder he better start saving, there is no other way out, thats how it works

2)I would tell him to come with me to my computer, there i would show him a pretty good amount of GDS puppies found on petfiender that most likely are purebreed and if they are not then they pretty much they look like one

The difference is that he actually does not HAVE to go to a shelter with an already defeated state of mind that he wont find there what he wants.