Need a Mate!

ORIGINAL: Nikki_Burr

The thing that worries me about breeding a dog of unknown background is mostly the fact that it's really a gamble.  You just don't know what kind of problems she may have in her genetic family tree that don't crop up right away, something that might not set in until she's older.  Usually breeders keep an eye out for things like that in a family tree and are able to avoid perpetuating those problems in their lines by avoiding breeding those dogs who will pass it on.  But you know that already.  If that's a risk you're willing to take, then it is ultimately your decision.  You will be responsible for these dogs for their lives as you have brought them into the world.  And while I am of the belief that she should not be bred because of her background, I do know that you're the owner and you know your situation better than anyone. 
However, I do hope you read everyone's posts here - while often they've got a crust of jagged edges on 'em, they're really all written by human beings (the fact that they're on the internet doesn't make them any less of people).  These are people who love dogs and their posts show their opinions for the dogs' sake.  These are people who would choose not to breed because of the risks and because of the plethora of already homeless mutts in the world - and I think you'll find that that is the most common opinion on the forum.  They DO have some good information to share and I hope you read it and let it weigh in on your decision to breed.  I know the apparent harshness of some of the posts (though they've been quite tame in this thread comparatively) may turn you off from the actual information, but I will ask you to try to look past that to the real meat of each post.  Some have mentioned getting your dogs' hips OFA'd.  That is a great idea and I hope you take this precaution before you breed her, if you do.  It will help you determine how healthy her pups will be.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Thanks, I am definitely respecting information from those who have approached me respectfully. The "on the internet" comment was simply that people wouldn't confront a stranger in real life with the same tone and I find internet forums, as a whole, to be the bane of our existence because of the 'internet muscles' it provides so many people.

ORIGINAL: sonic


Thanks, I am definitely respecting information from those who have approached me respectfully. The "on the internet" comment was simply that people wouldn't confront a stranger in real life with the same tone and I find internet forums, as a whole, to be the bane of our existence because of the 'internet muscles' it provides so many people.

Aye, it's true about the 'internet muscles'.  I'd be lying if I said I didn't have em myself - I'm a true wimp in person and wouldn't stand up to a twig.  I think part of being in the internet community though is recognizing those muscles and accepting them as a fact - it's going to happen no matter what you do to prevent it and the best thing you can do is take it in stride and try to see where people are coming from.  It would of course be a more pleasant place if we all remained civil and polite, but it just won't happen.  If I were you I would do my best not to fight fire with fire and remain as civil as you can, even to the people who you don't agree with.  Staying polite to those folks will give you a good reputation and will earn respect for yourself, which in turn, will earn more civil replies for yourself as well.  There will be people against what you're doing - and I'm one of them.  But I'm doing my best to set an example here and hope that others will follow.  I hope we can keep it civil on both sides and pass on some good information.

Sonic my question is do you want to have your dog breed just to have one of her puppies? If so why so soon as she is only 2 years old now and your life with Sable will be for may years yet. If she has pups now they will only be about 3 years apart. If you want one real soon that is a good thing. Will she be spayed after the pups arrive???? No more pups from Sable??? Then her chances of bad things happening later in life are good + no more pups. The sooner that they are spayed the better for health reasons. I also have a mix dog (half Lhasa and half min. poodle)and people say they want her to have pups because she is so smart and so cute. She was spayed at 9 months of age. Sorry this is not going to happen. I would love to have a pup of Mollys but her health is more important to me than a pup that she could give me and her ending up dying in the process of giving me that pup. This does happen.

Please don`t leave the fourm as it is the best dog forum on the internet. Really it is. It can get a little harsh at times but it still has very good info. 

ORIGINAL: Nikki_Burr

Aye, it's true about the 'internet muscles'.  I'd be lying if I said I didn't have em myself - I'm a true wimp in person and wouldn't stand up to a twig.  I think part of being in the internet community though is recognizing those muscles and accepting them as a fact - it's going to happen no matter what you do to prevent it and the best thing you can do is take it in stride and try to see where people are coming from. 

I know, and I should know. I own an Internet-based Technology Firm here in Portland (probably shouldn't mention which one now that I've pissed off so many people lol!). It's allowed me the luxuries that I have with my two passions: animals and photography.

It would of course be a more pleasant place if we all remained civil and polite, but it just won't happen.

I can't agree with this. I belong to a few boards online and some are quite strict with those who try to flex their 'internet muscles'. The online world doesn't HAVE to be fake and completely annoymous. But I do realize I'm the odd man out here and respect whatever rules this board has in place.

If I were you I would do my best not to fight fire with fire and remain as civil as you can, even to the people who you don't agree with.

Good advice! And I already decided, back on page one, to quit replying to those who started fire-fighting.

Staying polite to those folks will give you a good reputation and will earn respect for yourself, which in turn, will earn more civil replies for yourself as well.

With all due respect, I didn't disrespect anybody in here with my first question. I made no assuming comments (I wish the same were true about those who replied). I respect those who respect me; I don't respect those who disrespect me right out of the box before even knowing me and I don't care if they don't respect me in the future. I'm not here for approval.

There will be people against what you're doing - and I'm one of them.  But I'm doing my best to set an example here and hope that others will follow.  I hope we can keep it civil on both sides and pass on some good information.

Yup, and as you can see I was very respectful to those who replied to me respectfully... even when they didn't agree with what I was doing. I appreciate your thoughtful post.

Now that this post has strayed completely outside of the bounds it was intended... I will part by saying that I appreciate everyones comments and you can rest assured that my intentions and actions are always the best I can make them when it comes to animals (although, maybe not YOUR ideal of what those actions may be). Posting this on the internet was a spur of the moment kind of thing (don't know what I was thinking?) and I should have stayed with my first plan which was to speak with my folks to see if they have any old connections that could help me out.

I#%92m sorry to get off topic but Sonic can you post some pictures of your families GSD#%92s for us.  This Forum Loves Pictures!!!
 

ORIGINAL: sonic

ORIGINAL: Nikki_Burr

The thing that worries me about breeding a dog of unknown background is mostly the fact that it's really a gamble.  You just don't know what kind of problems she may have in her genetic family tree that don't crop up right away, something that might not set in until she's older.  Usually breeders keep an eye out for things like that in a family tree and are able to avoid perpetuating those problems in their lines by avoiding breeding those dogs who will pass it on.  But you know that already.  If that's a risk you're willing to take, then it is ultimately your decision.  You will be responsible for these dogs for their lives as you have brought them into the world.  And while I am of the belief that she should not be bred because of her background, I do know that you're the owner and you know your situation better than anyone. 
However, I do hope you read everyone's posts here - while often they've got a crust of jagged edges on 'em, they're really all written by human beings (the fact that they're on the internet doesn't make them any less of people).  These are people who love dogs and their posts show their opinions for the dogs' sake.  These are people who would choose not to breed because of the risks and because of the plethora of already homeless mutts in the world - and I think you'll find that that is the most common opinion on the forum.  They DO have some good information to share and I hope you read it and let it weigh in on your decision to breed.  I know the apparent harshness of some of the posts (though they've been quite tame in this thread comparatively) may turn you off from the actual information, but I will ask you to try to look past that to the real meat of each post.  Some have mentioned getting your dogs' hips OFA'd.  That is a great idea and I hope you take this precaution before you breed her, if you do.  It will help you determine how healthy her pups will be.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Thanks, I am definitely respecting information from those who have approached me respectfully. The "on the internet" comment was simply that people wouldn't confront a stranger in real life with the same tone and I find internet forums, as a whole, to be the bane of our existence because of the 'internet muscles' it provides so many people.

Since you feel this way you will be happy to know that I would tell you in person what I am going to tell you here.

I have a 1 year old lab named Jack.  I got Jack from a reputable breeder who did all the health tests.  Despite these efforts, Jack was diagnosed with elbow dysplasia a little over 2 months ago (after a long ordeal of "mystery lameness").  A week after he was diagnosed he underwent arthroscopic surgery to remove a bone chip and smooth down the damaged cartilage.  All together that was roughly $2000 in vet bills.

He now goes to physical therapy once a week at $50 a session.  He used to go twice a week, but as he is improving and being swum nearly everyday, he is down to once.  The PT clinic is a 4 hour round trip.

Jack will have to have a special diet with special suppliments his entire life.  He is currently on two different kinds and pain meds, and we are slowly trying to wean him off of them.

The vets think that Jack will always have a slight limp at a jog no matter what.  Again, this is a one year old dog.  Jack will probably never be able to go to doggy daycare or to the dog park without some sort of anti-inflammatory afterward.  I think it is very likely that at some point it will be best to get his entire elbow replaced.

My husband took a loan out against his 401K to help offset the costs of the surgery and recovery--otherwise it would have almost drained our savings.

Seeing all this happen to a dog with a *known* genetic backround, I cannot imagine for the life of me why someone would think it was worth it to roll the dice on the health and lives of an entire litter of pups just so that they could have a dog that was like the dam--especially someone who claims to come from a family of dog breeders and therefore knows full well what they could be setting their pups up for.

Just a thought, but isn't solicitation against the forum rules?

ORIGINAL: sillysally

Just a thought, but isn't solicitation against the forum rules?

 
I was thinking that too.
 
Anyway, welcome to the forum, sonic. What about if you fostered some pups or a pregnant bitch instead? Then your relatives who want puppies can adopt those when they're older and ready to be re-homed. You'll be helping out a rescue too. Just a suggestion. []

I am just really wondering what type of "rescue" would adopt out a un-altered dog or not even make them sign a contract stating they will fix it?

If you believe 99.9% of people should adopt, why are you not spaying your girl and helping those friends find some Huskies or Mals of their own in a shelter and saving a life (or seven) instead of condemning one?  (Oh, and before you bring it up, yeah, I've done my own share as a fosterhome for homeless pets.  All my pets are adopted as well.  I practice what I preach.)
 
Solicitation is against the rules.  I assume you read them before joining?

I wonder if the OP realizes that the chances of producing a puppy "Just like the dam" are highly unlikely.  ESPECIALLY when going to a completely separate breed.
 
If this weren't a rescue bitch, and if this bitch were run in harness with a pack of other dogs and proved breed worthiness, I'd say "Hey, check out mushing circles and see if they've got anything".  But "all you've got" is a pet.
 
Hey, nothing wrong with that.  I have a competition dog and pet.  My dog has a known pedigree, known health history, has marvelous working drives and temperament, decent conformation, he's titled, has his hips and elbows x-rayed, and I've got people interested in puppies from him too.
 
In the next couple years, he's going in for the big snip.
 
My dog is not breedworthy.  He is a great dog, he is a great pet, he is a great worker, he's all around great, but he's not good enough for breeding.  You couldn't pay me enough money in the world to breed this dog.
 
He has a floppy ear (busted cartilage) mild allergies (one hot spot in summer, one in winter), he has a crapa$$ front, and the list goes on.
 
If you want to breed, do it right, have your girl spayed, urchase a quality husky (either AKC/CanKC show quality, or musher quality), and start from there.  Do not start from a (conformationally speaking) substandard animal.
 
Being a great pet does not equal being great breeding quality.
 
Having been raised with people who bred GSDs doesn't mean they bred them properly or responsibly.  It just means they bred them.
 
My mother bred German Shepherd Dogs too (And guess what I own at 21 years of age, even though there was never a GSD in the house until I got mine), but she didn't do it right.  They were just bred for pets.
 
Want just a pet?  Go to a shelter and save a life and spay/neuter it as you're supposed to.  Don't breed a rescue and create more rescues.
 
Everybody says "I'd LOVE a puppy from her!" until it comes time to pick up the 8 week old bundle of fluff.  Then it's "We're too busy," "Little Timmy is afraid of big dogs," "We don't want all the hair in the house," "We just don't have the time."
 
If you're going to go against all the (good) advice and breed your bitch anyway, MAKE your friends sign a contract stating that they must spay/neuter their new pup, and take it to an obedience class.  Be prepared for "You bred your girl, why can't we breed our puppy?"
 
I'd also be sure that you're willing to take back any of the pups you end up creating, or keeping all the chompy buggers for MONTHS (possibly) on end in the event that your bitch whelps 12 puppies and you've only got 6 homes lined up, and nobody else wants them.  I'd be sure you're willing to hold onto them for at LEAST 8 weeks and not let them go early.
I'd hope you're willing not to skimp on the vaccination schedule and worming if your bitch whelps 8-12 puppies to save money and not break the bank.
 
But ultimately, I'd hope you decide to do right by your rescued bitch and spay her.

ORIGINAL: scoobychick
I'm sorry to get off topic but Sonic can you post some pictures of your families GSD's for us.  This Forum Loves Pictures!!!

I'll post a couple that I have digitized (I have a bazillion photos of our dogs while growing up that are all in print somewhere in storage all boxed up). But I please ask that if anyone recognizes my mother not to divulge who she is; while she isn't 'known' in breeder circles, her parents (my grandparents) are fairly known throughout the Northwest and are very kind people who used to breed police dogs for many communities. That was quite a few years ago now (they're retired), and I don't want people bothering them just because some people here may not like what I am doing.

I'll start off with a puppy that my mother recently rescued (think it's a GSD/Husky mix):



Couple of her younger bitches:







As far as "soliciting" I have no idea what you guys are talking about (if it's directed towards me). If you're referring to my website in my sig, I guess I'll remove it. Pretty touchy bunch around here; I'm certainly not looking for [or need] extra income. That website serves as dual-duty; my personal website and my photography website (which I do on the side).

Here are some of the forum rules that have been violated in this thread.
 
2.)     Vulgarities, whether they be language, images or other offensive material, including, but not limited to, race, nudity or pornography will not be tolerated. The administrators and moderators shall be the sole judges of what does and does not violate the board's standards.

9.)     Selling or solicitation of anything in the forum will be considered SPAM and is prohibited.

10.) No promotions of related sites, please. Occasionally using the name of other sites or even posting a link to a pertinent article, thread or product is not a problem, but repeatedly referring to competitors' sites is considered SPAM.  Posting links to them, private messaging or emailing other members with such information is grounds for disciplinary action. Also, no clickable links within your signatures, please.

The forum rules are posted prominantly, and we DO ask that folks read and agree to the rules when they join the forum.  This is not a suggestion, it's something that we expect to happen.
 
 
A personal comment.....I always find it amusing when people share all the great things that they do to justify asking that they not be judged, yet turn around and judge others for stating their opinions.  Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black........

you'd be better off getting your friends to rescue dogs sitting on death row that supply them with puppies. Think of the dogs/puppies you'd be saying and the puppies you won't be adding.
Just a thought....
I once had a Malamute/Shepherd mix that was GORGEOUS. People were always asking us if we were going to breed her. Nope - she was spayed as a pup. Wasn't Daisy's job to supply people we knew with pups, no more than it's my job to supply in-laws with grandkids. 

I purchased a randomly bred gsd.  I was stupid pure and simple.  I wanted a puppy.  There were no health checks on the bitch, the dog had been tested, had his championship.
 
My "pet" puppy cost me 250.00, 13 years ago.  At six months old he had an undescended testicle that had a 1" cord and a surgical procedures that was essentially a "spay" since the body cavity was breached.  That was around 300.0 total due to the complication.  Then there was the odd tail position.  It took over 1800.00 to diagnose the spina bifida at the 7th and 8th lumbar vertibrae and 2500.00 to repair it....Oh yes we found the hip displasia then too.  Getting a pattern here?  At about 5 or 6 years old, I noticed a funny change in his toe nails.  Autoimmunine disorder.  That took around 1000.00 to treat and bring under control.  Then there was the 100.00 a month in pain control the the last 6 years of his life.
 
So, I vote for looking to find puppies that have been bred responsibly or looking for dogs already on the ground.  Baylor was lucky, he came into my life at a time when I was able to meet his medical needs financially.  There is a high probability in another situation he would have been euthanized very early in his life.
 
Random bred dogs have just as much chance of being a medical mess as they do healthy pets.