For Anne (spiritdogs) & Mike - Come on everyone.

whtsthfrequency

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I wanted to add that the problem is not really just the amount of donors. Look how many people are donors here. The biggest issue is the overly stringent requirements place on organs in order for them to be considered good to transplant. If you die and had anything less than a squeaky clean healthy history, forget it. Overweight? Nope, they won’t take em. Light smoker? Won’t take em. An issue with another organ system unrelated to the one you are donating? Still, not taken. You’d think they would try anything and everything, but SO many good donated organs end up in the trash because of the impossible standards.

Again, you simply don't know the facts.  I believed that, too, until I went to the family meeting during the transplant evaluation that my fiance underwent.  People who suffer from Hepatitis C can actually opt to accept a Hep-C organ if no perfect ones are available.  There are certainly risks to that, but since the alternative is certain death, people do make the decision to take an organ from a diseased donor.

willowchow

spiritdogs

From my perspective, I wonder how many people who feel the way some of you feel had to NOT check the box in order to insure that my fiance had to die for lack of an organ. 

I have to say, Anne, that even though I am a donor, I find this offensive.  It is still someones right to say no. 

 

 

Yes, it is, but if whatsthefrequency has a right to express opinions against donation, I certainly have a right to express my feelings about how the lack of donations affected me and my fiance.  Those are my feelings - and there are now some states that wish to make donation mandatory and add an opt-out feature, rather than have people have to opt in.  That way, those who don't want to do it won't have to, and the procrastinators don't need to actually DO anything to be included.

I'm sorry if I offended you, Lori - I like you and didn't mean to do that.  But, I think that it's offensive to come to this thread and print misinformation, too, which could frighten and discourage people from becoming donors as you did (thank you for that).  I have no problem with someone just plain not wanting to.

rwbeagles

Moderator Warning...

Honestly...I am suprised at the tone this thread has taken...speaking to ALL posting. Cease and desist.

This thread was started in the spirit of helping and sharing...and I doubt it VERY highly it was started to have an arguement. START A NEW THREAD TO ARGUE. There is plenty of room in NDR for such discussions...CIVIL discussions where actual respect...not pretend respect veiled with snide remarks, can be used to temper responses and rebuttals and debate.

Be civil, be respectful, YOU are responsible for what you post...I know you folks, are better than this.

Thank you.

Chuffy

Come on everybody, in memory of Mike... who else is going to make "Be an organ donor" their New Year's Resolution for 2009?

I want to thank Chuffy for starting what should have been a helping thread.  I also thank Gina for her understanding.  I only hope that this issue never touches any of you.  If it does, and you are unfortunate enough to see the person closest to you in life suffering, and slipping away, you will hoping against hope, too, for more people to check that little box while there's still time. 

I might be wrong, but I always assumed it was standard procedure that if someone was an organ donor, they would be kept breathing/functioning on whatever machines were necessary just long enough to insure healthy organ retrieval. I personally would be very comfortable with that and with our society getting to the point that organ donation was a given ... no need to ask permission from anybody.  If someone did not want to be a donor for whatever reason, it would then be up to the family to say so.    

Joyce                   

 Anne, I am so sorry that this thread has turned into a discussion about why NOT to donate organs... I feel guilty now   It has helped me make an informed decision, but it must be horrible for you to see others being discouraged to sign, after what you have been through.

I have given this a lot of thought and decided that I *am* going to be a donor.  I have told my DH my wishes, and I will make it "official" tonight, if I can, just in case (heaven forbid) something happens to both of us at the same time... an accident or something.  (I hate even saying this kind of stuff, like it's "bad luck" or something, you know?)

In any case, that's my decision.   I am thrilled to see so many other donors here

Since I continue to be misrepresented, these is my summarizing and final short notes. Then I hope I will be able to not have to come back and defend myself against sweeping generalizations.

I am NOT "against organ donation”. I am NOT pushing "not to donate organs" I am not trying to discourage anyone. I am explaining my personal feelings on the matter.

I think organ donation is great and extremely selfless. **It was asked if anyone wasn’t a donor, and I explained why I was uncomfortable with the idea, mostly in my final long post**. I expressed my opinion, and did not advertise any sort of “be against organ donation!” nonsense.

**I had been told the info on organ appropriateness by various people including one doctor, and I am completely prepared to be wrong, and I admit my mistake. I was simply going by what I had been told. I cannot be blamed for maliciously spreading known misinformation in order to get people not to donate, I was presenting what I had been told, like anyone here on this forum does on any matter. If that is incorrect info, you don't attack and correct the person for it, you simply correct them**

However, the reality is that I had an experience that made me (me, myself, and I only) uncomfortable being a donor and less than trusting of doctors involved in such cases, and my case is not isolated. I am not “campaigning against organ donation” and please do not label me as such

Chuffy

 Anne, I am so sorry that this thread has turned into a discussion about why NOT to donate organs... I feel guilty now  

On a lighter note (lighter only because I must indeed be warped to find this so funny) I was listening to the radio in the car this a.m. and heard about a doctor who during the course of his marriage donated a kidney to his wife.  Now they're in  the middle of an extremely messy divorce and it seems it's not enough to fight about who gets  the house, kids, dog, car, family silver, etc. etc.  HE'S DEMANDING THAT SHE RETURN HIS FREAKIN' KIDNEY or what he determines to be the monetary equivalent, which is $1.5 million.  Is he planning to have it sewn back in?  Or is he going to keep it in a jar on the mantel?  Is this by any chance happening in CA?? And does anybody see a judge actually agreeing to this?

Joyce

fuzzy_dogs_mom

On a lighter note (lighter only because I must indeed be warped to find this so funny) I was listening to the radio in the car this a.m. and heard about a doctor who during the course of his marriage donated a kidney to his wife.  Now they're in  the middle of an extremely messy divorce and it seems it's not enough to fight about who gets  the house, kids, dog, car, family silver, etc. etc.  HE'S DEMANDING THAT SHE RETURN HIS FREAKIN' KIDNEY or what he determines to be the monetary equivalent, which is $1.5 million.  Is he planning to have it sewn back in?  Or is he going to keep it in a jar on the mantel?  Is this by any chance happening in CA?? And does anybody see a judge actually agreeing to this?

Joyce

I was listening to this today and its hysterical.  They obviously can't return the kidney so he wants the monetary equivalent.  He says that she left him right after he donated the Kidney and his donation was under the pretense she loved him and she's got a boyfriend - I think.  Hey he is a doctor and probably loaded, this is his way of keeping her from getting any of his money.

Chuffy

 Anne, I am so sorry that this thread has turned into a discussion about why NOT to donate organs... I feel guilty now   It has helped me make an informed decision, but it must be horrible for you to see others being discouraged to sign, after what you have been through.

I have given this a lot of thought and decided that I *am* going to be a donor.  I have told my DH my wishes, and I will make it "official" tonight, if I can, just in case (heaven forbid) something happens to both of us at the same time... an accident or something.  (I hate even saying this kind of stuff, like it's "bad luck" or something, you know?)

In any case, that's my decision.   I am thrilled to see so many other donors here

You know Chuffy, it was a good thing to start this thread in the way that you did.  And I think it did a lot of good in a few different ways. Hey...it changed your mind....so it was a good thread.

I don't think anyone needs to apologize about anything here either.  whtshthfrequency did not say anything wrong...its too bad she got blamed for that. She told us her doubts and why.....that was to be respected.  She never suggested anyone should feel like her.  We all know good  scrupulous people and we all know people that are not. Thats true with doctors also...and probably certain institutions that treat matters with different feelings.   Its too bad that people are turning this into an ugly thread...it is so informative and helpful.

Chuffy,,,you did good! 

dyan

Chuffy

 Anne, I am so sorry that this thread has turned into a discussion about why NOT to donate organs... I feel guilty now   It has helped me make an informed decision, but it must be horrible for you to see others being discouraged to sign, after what you have been through.

I have given this a lot of thought and decided that I *am* going to be a donor.  I have told my DH my wishes, and I will make it "official" tonight, if I can, just in case (heaven forbid) something happens to both of us at the same time... an accident or something.  (I hate even saying this kind of stuff, like it's "bad luck" or something, you know?)

In any case, that's my decision.   I am thrilled to see so many other donors here

You know Chuffy, it was a good thing to start this thread in the way that you did.  And I think it did a lot of good in a few different ways. Hey...it changed your mind....so it was a good thread.

I don't think anyone needs to apologize about anything here either.  whtshthfrequency did not say anything wrong...its too bad she got blamed for that. She told us her doubts and why.....that was to be respected.  She never suggested anyone should feel like her.  We all know good  scrupulous people and we all know people that are not. Thats true with doctors also...and probably certain institutions that treat matters with different feelings.   Its too bad that people are turning this into an ugly thread...it is so informative and helpful.

Chuffy,,,you did good! 

I was not objecting to anyone not wanting to donate their organs, as that is a personal choice - but at least it should not be based on misinformation.  As ottoluv pointed out, there is a procedure that is followed (and rather stringently) about when and how organs get harvested, and who they go to. 

The other point I want people to understand: the fact that a doc has to ask a family at an inopportune and stressful time, about whether they want to donate their loved one's organs, is more a function of medical urgency than a desire to upset anyone.  If we all take more time to learn about, and understand, the process, we might be less inclined to be shocked if we must face it ourselves, either as donors, recipients, or family members charged with sensitive decisions.  I would urge people to speak to a social worker who is connected to a transplant team at the nearest teaching hospital before the situation ever arises - that person can connect you with resources, provide information, and generally walk you through what will happen if you ever are in that situation.  

I would just urge people to learn about this from many sources before making a decision.  In this life, you can either walk in fear or be a warrior.  Whatever you decide, keep in mind that fear usually comes from the unknown or the misunderstood.

spiritdogs

The other point I want people to understand: the fact that a doc has to ask a family at an inopportune and stressful time, about whether they want to donate their loved one's organs, is more a function of medical urgency than a desire to upset anyone.  If we all take more time to learn about, and understand, the process, we might be less inclined to be shocked if we must face it ourselves, either as donors, recipients, or family members charged with sensitive decisions.  I would urge people to speak to a social worker who is connected to a transplant team at the nearest teaching hospital before the situation ever arises - that person can connect you with resources, provide information, and generally walk you through what will happen if you ever are in that situation.  

This is such an important thing to add.  Many of us had no idea that we could be confronted with these questions....I suppose it would be a shock to your system if you were faced with it, and yes.....at a very stressful time when you are already not thinking straight.  As you say the doctor has no desire to upset anyone...but some have more desire to not upset people than others.  Is it possible that some could be more dedicated to getting those donations and thus cause people to go the other way.... such as what seemed to be with whtshthfrequency. I believe that she said she was signed up before an incident.  

Discussing these things is why this thread is so good and important.  Just too bad that we don't all pick and choose our words better to keep the conversation going more positive rather than people making their last point and leaving it.

My Mom was with me when my sister died so suddenly, so I got the call from the transplant coordinator.  She told me exactly what they wanted to take and my FIRST question was if they could use any of her organs.  That's me though, always trying to find, or insert a silver lining in the black clouds.  If she HAD to die so suddenly, gosh, in my mind, perhaps some good could come from loosing her.  I'm guessing that was my first real nudge towards thinking about becoming a donor myself.  Really thinking seriously.

It was 2AM when the phone first rang with my oldest sister letting us know what had happened.  I had to wake my Mom, tell my Mom that her second child was dead, and call my other sister as well.  As horrible, and emotional time as it was for ME too, I had to switch into sensible mode, support mode for Mom and my sister.  And honestly, when that next phone call come, it was not an intrusion or a shock to me....it was sensible and logical that, despite what we were feeling, they would call while there was still time to harvest something.  Perhaps if Mom would have been with Sis when Wanda died, there wouldn't have been any donations at all.  I can't say for sure, but both she and Mom were shocked at the ghoulishness of the timing. It was me who told Mom that this was a good thing that could come from my sisters death, and she's grateful that I encouraged her to allow it.  Maybe because I had to "shut down" emotionally, and not feel so that I could be the rock for everyone else it seemed natural and ok to me.  And maybe I'm really just wierd, but in a crisis, a part of my brain disconnects and goes into "doing what needs to be done" mode and the emotions be darned.

But, gosh darn it.  IF it weren't so hard to be an organ donor....if the wishes of the deceased could be honored without all the drama (and Wanda WAS a donor) then family wouldn't have to be approached by "ghouls", but gosh, the woman who called me was so loving and gentle she sure wouldn't qualify.  It frustrates me to know that despite all my careful planning and legal documentation, my family will still be approached.  I know my men.  That's why I've been so specific in my living will.  But, despite it being my body, they still have to say yes for my wishes to be honoed.  It's not that I doubt that they will honor my request, but, it will make it harder for them in a not so great situation.  THAT shouldn't be how it works.

If, right now, today, someone needed a liver that I matched closely enough to donate, they could have part of mine.  Same with a kidney.  I'm a blood donor, which doesn't seem like much, and I'm also on the National bone marrow registry.  Even though I'm still using those parts, I can make more marrow, more liver, since it regenerates, and gosh, if I could actually save a life?  Wow.  Even better if I'm still alive to enjoy the satisfaction.

I certainly don't judge folks who are on the fence about organ donation, or who just flat want to keep what is theirs forever.  But, please, get the facts and make your decison based on those.