Sarah Palin ~ Unbelievable!

alieliza

I am deeply saddened by the fact that someone would have to hide their faith,

interesting.... you all have been ripping up palin for being an outspoken christian. however, you all find it odd that a muslim person might want to hide their faith to gain office. seems to me that any religious person would be best served by keeping their faith a secret while trying to gain an office.

You know, some of these "sound bites" that people are using to make their voting decisions on are really pretty sad. I wish people would look into them more and find out the real story behind them before making such an important decision.

Two examples I've seen in this thread:

1. "Sarah Palin was against the bridge to nowhere"

2. "Barack Obama mentioned "his Muslim faith".

If anyone is interested in more than the soundbite, do some research and reading to find out what's REALLY going on.

1. Sarah Palin actually hired lobbyists to go to Washington and ASK for funds for that bridge. She supported it 100% and criticized people who called it "The bridge to Nowhere." When it became politically advantageous for her to change her stance, she made a 180 degree turnaround and now claims to have stopped it from happening. It's crazy.

This is from Reuters, one of the most respected and accurate news organizations in the world. If you read the article, you'll get a taste of the truth. More than sound bites from speeches of her self-promoting.

During her first speech after being named as McCain's surprise pick as a running mate, Palin said she had told Congress "'thanks but no thanks' on that bridge to nowhere."

In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere," political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska's Congressional delegation during her run for governor.

The bridge, a span from the city to Gravina Island, home to only a few dozen people, secured a $223 million earmark in 2005. The pricey designation raised a furor and critics, including McCain, used the bridge as an example of wasteful federal spending on politicians' pet projects.

Earmarks is a whole 'nother issue. And the money for the bridge that didn't get built? The state kept it and spent it on other things. So, did she save money for the "bridge to nowhere"? No. She used it. The federal government is OUT that money.

2. In an interview, George Stephanopolis asked Obama if McCain had ever accused him of being a Muslim. He said, No, McCain had never mentioned my Muslim faith. Immediately, Stephanopolis said, "you mean your Christian faith" and Obama said, "What I'm saying is, McCain never said I was a Muslim."

So, you can take those 3 words and say it's an admittance of Obama's "secret Muslimhood" or you can listen to the whole interview and get the real meaning. Here's the Video. In context.

ron2

Why is that Obama's faith, whatever it is, is not called into question as to how it would inform his policies?

He has stated repeatedly that he believes in the separation of church and state. Source

OBAMA: I am proud of my Christian faith. And it informs what I do. And I don’t think that people of any faith background should be prohibited from debating in the public square.

But I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state, and I think that we’ve got to translate…

By the way, I support it not just for the state but also for the church, because that maintains our religious independence and that’s why we have such a thriving religious life.

But what I also think is that we are under obligation in public life to translate our religious values into moral terms that all people can share, including those who are not believers. And that is how our democracy’s functioning, will continue to function. That’s what the founding fathers intended.

ron2

The answer is because she is a republican.

No, it's because she has stated that she thinks it should be illegal to have an abortion even in the case of rape and incest. She has enacted legislation that says gay people shouldn't have the same rights as married people. She is highly involved in the "Pray away the Gay" movement. These are all well-documented cases of her slashing the line between religion and the law.

cyclefiend2000

interesting.... you all have been ripping up palin for being an outspoken christian. however, you all find it odd that a muslim person might want to hide their faith to gain office. seems to me that any religious person would be best served by keeping their faith a secret while trying to gain an office.

I was thinking the same thing!  You know there is a double-standard.  Always has been.  Reminds me of the old saying "Liberals are all for free speech...as long as you agree with them."

Ok, everyone's ripping on her about the bridge to nowhere deal.  The Alaskan Democratic Party even credits her on their website with being instrumental in killing the deal.  Ted Stevens, who pushed for the funds to be added to the spending bill, credited her with helping to kill the deal.  I believe it was Ron who mentioned already that it's a good thing that she changed her stance on this issue because she listened to the people of Alaska and took their opinions into consideration.  That is a quality of a good leader.  Besides, in the sound clip I heard the other day on NBC news from back when she was running for governor, she said that she would support the building of the bridge, but nowhere did she say she wanted federal money to fund it.

And no one has mentioned that Obama and Biden actually voted for the bill!!  Even when another senator wanted to add an option that the money be redirected for Katrina relief, they still voted for the money to build the bridge.

ron2

But that's kind of secondary. My original question still stands. Why is that Obama's faith, whatever it is, is not called into question as to how it would inform his policies?

I only speak for myself but for one I prefer not to call ANYONE's faith into question, regardless of what that faith is.  To me that is a deeply personal choice and there's maybe only half a dozen people I know well enough to even try to understand their faith, let alone have the balls to call it into question.  I don't really care what anyone's faith is anyway, so I have no basis for challenging whether or not that's really what they believe.

As for the second part, I don't like anyone's faith informing any policies..... Obama, Palin, whoever.  If Obama's Christian faith is clouding his judgment and influencing secular decision-making, I don't like it. 

ron2

Liesje

Are you serious?  Obama is quite outspoken about being a Christian... and considering how many different faiths exists in this world, the percent chance that Obama (or you or I) is a Muslim is probably more like .1%

In a nationally broadcast interview, Obama has a bit of a freudian slip and mentions "my muslim faith." The reporter corrects him to say "my christian faith."

But that's kind of secondary. My original question still stands. Why is that Obama's faith, whatever it is, is not called into question as to how it would inform his policies? And yet with Palin, it's open season.

Even in the few responses based on my 50 % remark, no one has answered that question, not even you. I know, how dare I say anything not fully glorious of Obama.

The answer is because she is a republican.

Excuse me, side-effects of politics, (puke, barf, ralf, hugging the porcelain steering wheel, hurl)

Well, his faith has been called into question. Starting with the church he attended, the political spin on Wrights speeches. The problem is some people hugged those snippets to their chests to justify why Obama should not be in office.

 The DIFFERENCE between him, and Palin in terms of how faith might effect policies is that with Obama, you don't here him sprouting off about God's grand plan for this or that.

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

God did not send them, George W. Bush and the rest of the goverment did.

And I am curious about something.............

Why do people write something like this:

I know, how dare I say anything not fully glorious of Obama.

The answer is because she is a republican.

Excuse me, side-effects of politics, (puke, barf, ralf, hugging the porcelain steering wheel, hurl)

And then expect people, anyone, to respect what they have to say? You can't debate with people when you do things like that, because you cheapen everything.

There is a ton of mudslinging in an election, everyones actions get put under a microscope. It is an unfortunate fact that the American people have to wade through lies, mud, and more lies to find the canidate that is best for them.

Truley

There is a ton of mudslinging in an election, everyones actions get put under a microscope. It is an unfortunate fact that the American people have to wade through lies, mud, and more lies to find the canidate that is best for them.

Agreed.  With all this incessant poll-taking going on, why does no one conduct a poll on what the people think about all the mud-slinging in ads and speeches?  I'd bet my right arm that the majority of us are sick of it, and maybe it would stop (or at least, lessen), if the candidates knew how much we hate that side of campaigning.

aerial1313

Truley

There is a ton of mudslinging in an election, everyones actions get put under a microscope. It is an unfortunate fact that the American people have to wade through lies, mud, and more lies to find the canidate that is best for them.

Agreed.  With all this incessant poll-taking going on, why does no one conduct a poll on what the people think about all the mud-slinging in ads and speeches?  I'd bet my right arm that the majority of us are sick of it, and maybe it would stop (or at least, lessen), if the candidates knew how much we hate that side of campaigning.

 Agreed

  It has come from both sides, I think the majority of it is coming from the bloggers on both sides, II am sure everyone is very aware that I will not be voting for Obama, and yet I would like to state that I do not believe he is a Muslim nor do I believe it was his intention to call Palin a pig.

  I do not think all of the questions being asked are invalid. For instance the abortion issue is important to all sides so their views on this should be made clear and their intentions, their associations are important because associations say much about character so IMO that makes Obama's fair game, he needs to be able to openly address them like he did on the OReilly interview and also McCains and Palins so she needs to open up about the Alaska Independance association that has been alleged.

 Their kids should be left out of this, and their families unless that family member openly campaignes and makes public speeches, when they do that IMO they are stepping into the ring.

 It is sad that our elections are so ugly. We argue, we hate, and we lose sight of the fact that for the vast majority of us, we are all patriotic Americans regardless of our politics or our faith.

 So I would like to end, on this 9/11/08 day of remembrence that I love all of you who love America, we may differ in our views, we may do so with some anger but in the end, if you love this country you are my brother and my sister.

 Today I remember how we all came together after 9/11, I remember all of our nations leaders standing on the steps of the capitol to sing together, I remember our flags flying everywhere, during that time it did not matter whether you were republican or democrat or independent it did not matter for at the forefront was the fact that you were first and foremost and American.

 Okay enough mush mush, back into the mudpit!

aerial1313

With all this incessant poll-taking going on, why does no one conduct a poll on what the people think about all the mud-slinging in ads and speeches?  I'd bet my right arm that the majority of us are sick of it, and maybe it would stop (or at least, lessen), if the candidates knew how much we hate that side of campaigning.

I think there have been numerous polls taken that show that Americans are sick of the rhetoric and mudslinging and the candidates always swear that they'll steer clear of doing it, but they never do. Like little children they use the "well, he/she started it"

Just an aside here, but I'm old enough to remember when JFK ran for president.  His faith (Catholic) became a major issue  then, too. "Oh my doG, we can't elect a Catholic president.  The pope will be running the country" etc., etc.  It really turned out to be a non-issue and it will be a non-issue in this election too .... unless whoever gets elected decides to impose their beliefs on the rest of us. Other than that, I have no problem with any faith being represented in the white house, including Muslim.

Joyce

 Rather than taking snippets from the media, watch the entirety of the speeches in question and make up your own minds.

Palin at Church

Obama Pig Comment

My Muslim Faith

 I know they're YouTube clips, but I'm tired and didn't feel like digging through news websites when someone else has already done it.

Truley

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."

Your description says it best. Her statement was made at church to others of her faith. So, she made a religious statement reflecting her faith while in her church. Oh, the horror of it all.

If I were in church and said that I believe that God has given us the task of fighting against the jihadists who would destroy our country and take away our religion (anyone not of the nation of Islam is an infidel. All infidels must die), would that offend you? Would it offend you if I said that and my day job was police chief? Mayor? Governor? President?

She has the right to go to church and speak a religious opinion, just as Obama had the right to go to a church where the preacher had such vitriolic things to say. And, to be fair, everyone's faith is going to be questioned. It's just Palin's turn in the hot box.

And remember, people, the position is Vice President. She doesn't get to decide everything, nor does the President. How's about someone tell me what truly astounding thing was changed in America by a sitting Vice President.

In fact, to prove my point, as it were, I think Al Gore has accomplished more since he left the Vice President's position. Turns out, he was more of changing-things kind of guy than Bill Clinton. But I don't recall anything too spectacular that he did during his 8 years in office, unless you count inventing the internet.

Again, I don't think Palin as VP is going to overturn RvW. And Supreme Court positions are for a lifetime. And, its' one thing to have a political point before being posted to the court, it's another thing when you don the robe. The office changes you. 8 years of Reagan. 8 years of Bush Sr. 8 years of Bush Jr. RvW still stands. All those years of republicans, yet some municipalities recognize gay civil unions. Bush Jr has not been able to repeal don't ask, don't tell. Nor do I think he cares. 8 years of Bush Jr and 8 years of Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Texas Penal Code 21.06 was repealed, anyway. In case anyone forgets, congress can overturn a president's veto. It's called checks and balances.

Again, it's easy to criticize Palin because she sticks her neck out and takes a stand. She is at considerably more political risk than a community organizer.

That quote also can be interpreted in many different ways...

I took it to mean that it was their God-given task to be brave and courageous as soldiers are/should be, since they are now fighting the war that their country is asking them to fight. 

It doesn't necessarily mean that she considers it some sort of holy war crusade and that God said we had to go kill Iraqis.

It really depends on who is quoting her, in what context, and what agenda they have. But that is the nature of politics.

whtsthfrequency

That quote also can be interpreted in many different ways...

I took it to mean that it was their God-given task to be brave and courageous as soldiers are/should be, since they are now fighting the war that their country is asking them to fight. 

It doesn't necessarily mean that she considers it some sort of holy war crusade and that God said we had to go kill Iraqis.

It really depends on who is quoting her, in what context, and what agenda they have. But that is the nature of politics.

Agreed. If we must allow Obama his church activities, regardless of what someone in that church says that others don't like, can we not grant the same religious freedom to Palin?  This is America and we do have freedom of religion and can hold a religious opinion. And religious opinon affects people all the time. Many vote based on their religious opinions. Our founding forefathers did. They did not care to worship in the Anglican Church of England and decided they wanted to worship and state things in their own way. And fought a bloody war to get that right,among other things. The same right that is extended to anyone in this country, VP candidate, or not.

Also, again, I'm not going to agree with everything Palin says or does, just as I don't agree with everything Bush says or does. And evidently, according to the quote poll, so do some other people.

I haven't mentioned this until now but it is something to be reckoned with, imo. A co-worker, John, is a died-in-the-wool, straight ticket Democrat. I use those superlatives to exactly express how much his thoughts and politics are Democrat. And he has stated at least 4 distinct times that, this one election, he will be voting for McCain/Palin for the top spots, and no doubt, Democrat on everything else. I don't know if I can express how impressive it is for him to say that. And primarily because of Palin's inclusion on the ticket. I think he thought of McCain is a bit ineffective but Palin as a fresh shot of juice with cajones el grande. And I think there will more of that party shift which leave some democrats to wonder why a traditionally democractic district might vote republican (shades of Florida and Gore's already filed lawsuit at the time of election returns).

I really really want a freaking agnostic president. I'm so sick of religion running the country. To me, Obama's as close to Agnostic as we've gotten in a looooong time, not because he doesn't believe in god, but because it doesn't seem to cloud his judgement one bit. Every other president I can think of based some laws, some policies, something on their faith, and that is just WRONG, IMO. I don't see Obama doing that, but who really has any idea until he takes office?

Politicians are all liars. That's the nature of the game. It's ALWAYS going to be about choosing the lesser of two evils, and to me, there's no question who that is in this race, even though neither of them are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... Because they CAN'T. If they did, they wouldn't even have a chance at winning. And that, American Public, is OUR FAULT. They sling mud at each other because it WORKS. We say we don't want to see it, and then we're totally swayed by it..we go around spouting it like it's fact, and getting into humongo debates on dog forums about it. That too is OUR FAULT. If we (general we, talking about every single American old enough to vote) weren't so STUPID, we wouldn't have to choose between two evils, but we are, so we do. Our fault. No one else's.

ron2

I haven't mentioned this until now but it is something to be reckoned with, imo. A co-worker, John, is a died-in-the-wool, straight ticket Democrat. I use those superlatives to exactly express how much his thoughts and politics are Democrat. And he has stated at least 4 distinct times that, this one election, he will be voting for McCain/Palin for the top spots, and no doubt, Democrat on everything else.

I'm jumping in here w/o having read most of the thread.

But I just wanted to say that I really don't think examples like the above are indicative of anything at all.  For every died-in-the-wool Democrat someone can post about who says he/she is going to vote Republican this year, I'm pretty sure I or someone else could post about a died-in-the-wool Republican who says he/she is going to vote Democrat.  Cross-over votes are certainly nothing new or unique, there are always plenty of them in every election.