Sarah Palin ~ Unbelievable!

ron2

But that doesn't make their article "fact" or even researched.

Prove them wrong, then.  I've yet to hear of anybody who has.  But I'm certainly willing to consider any opposing facts (with cites) you can present that contradicts their conclusion.

Myra

Prove them wrong, then.  I've yet to hear of anybody who has.  But I'm certainly willing to consider any opposing facts (with cites) you can present that contradicts their conclusion.

I'll play!

This is from the Congressional Record, on file at the Library of Congress (emphasis mine, bolded key points below).  Note the mention of Franklin Raines, Obama's top economic advisor.

FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005 — (Senate - May 25, 2006)

[Page: S5217]  GPO's PDF

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Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

 

 

(and I don't mean the ones who "make less than 5 million a year)

talk about using distorted quote! that is one that the obama camp has used out of context repeatedly. mccain even stated during the interview where he said that statement that he knew it would be used against him. watch for yourself....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zovk-H5qmBE

in fact he states that he doesnt want to increase taxes because we are in hard economic times. 

Aerial1313 -- What you posted corroborates Politifact's report.  The legislation McCain supported was in reference to internal accounting problems that were occurring within Fannie.  Politifact's contention is that those accounting problems were in no way related to the subprime mortgage mess, and that in fact Fannie and Freddie took appropriate action to help lessen the fallout from the subprime market.  Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn't cause the subprime mess.  Greedy private lenders did.

It seems to me that believing that speaking out against internal accounting problems within Fannie Mae means he was somehow omniscient in foreseeing the subprime mortgage problem is kind of like saying someone who spoke out against our involvement in Vietnam was somehow foreseeing the Iraqi War.

 i have only heard mccain say he wanted stricter controls on government sponsored leading agencies. not that he foresaw the subprime lending collapse.

"Two years ago I warned this Administration and Congress that regulations for our home loan agencies, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, needed to be fixed..."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/mccains_economic_remarks_in_ce.html

actually, if you reread what aerial1313 posted... "If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole."... it does seem as though maybe mccain did see great harm being done by fannie and freddie to our economy and the housing market (no mention of sub prime lending directly).

if you want to know why the sub prime market collasped, look at the people living above their means. 

Thank you for that link.  I had not seen the entire conversation.

As to living above our means?  Well, certainly, many people do just that.  Many people do not.  I did not dump my old van until I could afford a nice down payment and monthly payment on a new vehicle.  DH had not had a vehicle in years, so when WE bought two vehicles, it was well within our means.  And, we are savers.  We had 8 months of "bills" put away for that rainy day.  However, a fight for unemployment benefits, a very cold winter and very high heating bills, snow that wouldn't quit requiring money for plowing, but only when it was too deep to get a 4x4 through....the skyrocketing cost of groceries, and 11 months of unemployment......

And here we are, livng in an RV, me working part time, no health insurance so medical issues can't be addressed, and oh, by the way, we don't qualify for help with RX drugs because we made too much money in 2007....forget that we are making next to none NOW....

I thank God every day that we HAVE the RV, and that we have someone willing to let us park it in her driveway for half of what we'd be paying in a campground.  So many have NO PLACE to call home, save the churches that provide mailing addy's and showers.

How is that $7000 credit for every child going to help ME?  I don't have young children and am sure not about to start making more, even if I physically could, in our current situation or at my age.  Show me please where either candidate is going to make life better for me and others in my situation?

Yet, I willsupport OBama because by golly, this nation cannot afford another four years under the Republican rein.  We cannot survive another 4 years that are just a continuation of W.  And that's what I see, in everything he says and does, John McSame to be.

How is that $7000 credit for every child going to help ME?  I don't have young children and am sure not about to start making more, even if I physically could, in our current situation or at my age.  Show me please where either candidate is going to make life better for me and others in my situation?

isnt going to help me either. 

from what i understand, mccain is planning across the board tax relief. surely that will help more people than an earned income credit for people with children. 

i never insinuated that any particular person is living above their means. the people who are know who they are... i dont have to point them out. i am concerned that the gov't propping these people up isnt going to help the situation long term though.

edit: i do believe that mccain's proposed economic changes will better benefit small businesses than will anything i have heard from teh obama camp. since i work for a small business, anything that can help the small business man helps me.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/smallbusiness.htm

edit2: the opposition...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#small-business

cyclefiend2000

actually, if you reread what aerial1313 posted... "If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole."... it does seem as though maybe mccain did see great harm being done by fannie and freddie to our economy and the housing market (no mention of sub prime lending directly).

Thank you.  That is why I bolded this sentence.  Guess some folks only read what they want to read.

To be honest with you, I don't like McCain or Obama's tax plans, but McCain's is more realistic than Obama's.  I support something completely different...a total overhaul of the income tax system (www.fairtax.org).  But, anyway, Obama says he's going to cut the taxes for 95% of Americans.  Simply untrue.  What he is doing is flipping the stat that he wants to increase taxes on the top 5% (playing into wealth envy...so easy for folks who don't understand how our economy works).  Tell me....how is it possible to cut the taxes for 95% of Americans when 33% of Americans don't pay any taxes at all!!!  The bottom 1/3 of income earnings pay zilch in income taxes.  But, Obama knows that most folks don't know this, and won't research it, and the media certainly isn't going to mention it, so it works.  Oh, and I love this line from his acceptance speech at the DNC, which is repeated in stump speeches and on his website.  He says he wants to cut capital gains taxes for small businesses.  Oh, sounds great, right?  Well, there's a little problem here....small businesses don't pay capital gains taxes.  OOPS!!!

i too would like to see a complete overhaul of the taxation system. as well as an overhaul of the health insurance system. neither of which i expect to see in my lifetime.

Well, there's a little problem here....small businesses don't pay capital gains taxes.

really? do you have a source for that? my boss would probably like to know.

aerial1313

Oh, and I love this line from his acceptance speech at the DNC, which is repeated in stump speeches and on his website.  He says he wants to cut capital gains taxes for small businesses.  Oh, sounds great, right?  Well, there's a little problem here....small businesses don't pay capital gains taxes.  OOPS!!!

Exactly and he DOES want to increase capital gains taxes for those of us who actually pay them. Under his plan, they'll go from 15% to 20%. That'll make people want to save and invest more, right?

Myra

Aerial1313 -- What you posted corroborates Politifact's report.  The legislation McCain supported was in reference to internal accounting problems that were occurring within Fannie.  Politifact's contention is that those accounting problems were in no way related to the subprime mortgage mess, and that in fact Fannie and Freddie took appropriate action to help lessen the fallout from the subprime market.  Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn't cause the subprime mess.  Greedy private lenders did.

It seems to me that believing that speaking out against internal accounting problems within Fannie Mae means he was somehow omniscient in foreseeing the subprime mortgage problem is kind of like saying someone who spoke out against our involvement in Vietnam was somehow foreseeing the Iraqi War.

I said in my post - It didn't pass, and perhaps it wouldn't have helped the current situation, but I like the idea that he was able to see the problems and look for a way to prevent messes like the one we're in. 

I didn't mean to imply that the legislation could've/would've prevented what's taken place, but it interests me to know that he was speaking out about a problem when others weren't. By the way, did you ever find out about the contributions that Obama received? I'm honestly just curious if it's true or not.

Yep!

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2008/09/04/barak-obama-taxes-tech-enter-cx_sm_0905obama.html

A capital gain is what the tax law calls the profit when you sell a capital asset, which is property such as stocks, bonds, mutual fund shares, and real estate.  The only way a small business relates to this is in the instance where a person holds stock in a small business and sells it at a profit.  Has no effect on the business itself.

In fact, in researching this more online, I came across this little gem.  This would be my Aha! moment of the day, lol.  Seems Obama does understand how this works, but doesn't quite relay it correctly in his speeches.  This is what his plan actually does (again, emphasis mine)....

"Exempt investors from the capital gains tax on their investments in small businesses and startups if they made their investment when a small company was valued below a certain threshold. That threshold has yet to be defined."

Source of above quote: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/news/0806/gallery.election_issues/20.html

aerial1313

"Exempt investors from the capital gains tax on their investments in small businesses and startups if they made their investment when a small company was valued below a certain threshold. That threshold has yet to be defined."

I'm not super savvy on this, but it seems that most companies that are traded publicly have already grown beyond the "small businesses and startups" this would apply to. Don't most IPOs happen once the company has grown substantially?

K, I just found this, so I stand corrected, but I still think that the number of people or "startups" that would benefit from this would miniscule:

Firms no longer needed strong financials and a solid history to go public. Instead, IPOs were done by smaller startups seeking to expand their businesses. There's nothing wrong with wanting to expand, but most of these firms had never made a profit and didn't plan on being profitable any time soon. Founded on venture capital funding, they spent like Texans trying to generate enough excitement to make it to the market before burning through all their cash. In cases like this, companies might be suspected of doing an IPO just to make the founders rich. This is known as an exit strategy, implying that there's no desire to stick around and create value for shareholders. The IPO then becomes the end of the road rather than the beginning.

How can this happen? Remember: an IPO is just selling stock. It's all about the sales job. If you can convince people to buy stock in your company, you can raise a lot of money.

Not my idea of sound investing, but then I haven't done well lately, so maybe I should change my thinking

That is interesting.  So, in reality, it seems that very few of these startups actually make a profit, so, capital gains taxes wouldn't even happen very often in relation to the sale of these companies' stocks!!  The tax is only applied if a profit is made!

Yeah, that definitely sounds like risky investing to me!  I'm too chicken to do something like that, lol.

Oh, and since this is a thread about Palin, and we've gotten all off-topic (myself included), did anyone watch the rest of the interview she did on Hannity & Colmes?  I thought she said some very interesting things.  The one that stands out most, because people on this thread have said she wants to inflict her religion on the entire country, here is the question posed and her answer to just this subject:

HANNITY: You've talked a lot about religion — and I know you've discussed this — how important is religion and your faith? Because I read a lot about you and obviously religion and faith is an important part of your life. How important is it in your life?

PALIN: Faith is very, very important in my life. I don't believe I wear it on my sleeve and I would never try to shove it down anybody else's throat and try to convert anybody. But just a very simple faith that is important to me — it really is my foundation.

So let's put that discussion to rest, shall we?

aerial1313

PALIN: Faith is very, very important in my life. I don't believe I wear it on my sleeve and I would never try to shove it down anybody else's throat and try to convert anybody. But just a very simple faith that is important to me — it really is my foundation.

So let's put that discussion to rest, shall we?

I saw her on TV saying that she would like to see Roe vs Wade overturned ... so if that isn't shoving her religious beliefs down everyone elses throat, what is? As far as the economy, I'll admit I don't even begin to understand all the ins and out of taxes and investing.  However - I'd trust the economy to someone who can see that there is a problem and things need to be changed before I'd trust it to someone who thinks things are fine now. And would someone please explain to "McSame" that Spain is in Europe, NOT South America and the fact the fish seem to like swimming around oil rigs does not necessarily make off shore rigs a good thing for all concerned.

Joyce