Pill Thread Got Me Thinking....

janet_rose

Our society certainly doesn't need

• more drug-damaged babies 
• teenagers and women commiting suicide
• women trying to carry pregnancies which will only result in babies that are not viable
• children being abused by parents who don't want them
• etc.

I would add to that list women dying from illegal, unsterile abortions.  Surely the vehement pro-life group doesn't think the reversal of Roe vs. Wade would make the problem go away - or do they?

Joyce

fuzzy_dogs_mom

I would add to that list women dying from illegal, unsterile abortions.  Surely the vehement pro-life group doesn't think the reversal of Roe vs. Wade would make the problem go away - or do they?

This is really the only reason I don't feel it should be illegal.  Women will still want them and will end up getting hurt in the process (insert Dirty Dancing scene here). 

I just wish some women didn't see a baby as a death sentence.  My sister got pregnant in HS and he (now 9 yrs old) is the joy of our lives.  She hasnt always had it easy, but shes finishing college, is married (different guy) and has another child.  I just know that without Matt, my life would be empty and sad.  So thank God, she didn't choose to abort him in fear of our parents or the obstacles that she may face. 

I will probably not have kids of my own due to health problems and it crushes me that people who can so easily have them are willing to toss them away.  I would consider adoption, but the cost may make it unattainable.  Not to mention the years of waiting for someone to maybe pick you.  Or if I never own a house, I probably wouldn't quailfy.  They make it way too difficult for normal people who just want to love a child to be able to adopt one. 

fuzzy_dogs_mom

I would add to that list women dying from illegal, unsterile abortions.  Surely the vehement pro-life group doesn't think the reversal of Roe vs. Wade would make the problem go away - or do they?

jenn52

This is really the only reason I don't feel it should be illegal. 

The only reason?  What about

• rape and incest victims
• seriously defective fetuses
• situations where the choice is between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus?

jenn52

 

I just wish some women didn't see a baby as a death sentence.  My sister got pregnant in HS and he (now 9 yrs old) is the joy of our lives.  She hasnt always had it easy, but shes finishing college, is married (different guy) and has another child.  I just know that without Matt, my life would be empty and sad.  So thank God, she didn't choose to abort him in fear of our parents or the obstacles that she may face.   

That's great jenn, that things worked out so well for your sister.  She obviously had the love and support of her family to help her through this, but a lot of women don't.  It's not unheard of for parents to just toss a pregnant girl out on the streets to manage on her own at an age when she couldn't even take care of herself, much less a baby. I'm sure more than one young girl has chosen abortion rather than having to deal with that very situation. And yes, I agree.  They do make it unnecessarily hard for people to adopt.  People in their late 30s or early 40s have been turned down for being "too old." Money can be a factor, owning a home can be a factor ... yet  none of those issues prevent people from having their own.

Joyce

janet_rose

The only reason?  What about

• rape and incest victims
• seriously defective fetuses
• situations where the choice is between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus?

I feel like these types of situations should be exceptions to the rules.  Incest, yes - or use the morning after pill.  Rape, maybe (a life was created, why not place it for adoption - yes I know no one wants to carry the baby of a rapist, but they could get the morning after pill and avoid a full on abortion).  Defective fetuses - I don't think aborting every fetus with a problem is right.  Why not let them be born then die on their own?  Life of the mother - again a situation by situation review , how often does this really happen anymore?   I guess I just believe a fetus is more than just cells, it is a life, with a spirit and a God written plan.

jenn52

it crushes me that people who can so easily have them are willing to toss them away. 

"so easily have them"?

Pregnancy is not a walk in the park.  Some women may have relatively easy pregnancies.  Other women are absolutely miserable. 

Problems can include bladder control, mood swings, fatigue, problems sleeping, high blood pressure, diabetes, preeclampsia, swollen gums, gallstones, stretch marks, nosebleeds, morning sickness, ligament pain, tender breasts, dizziness, varicose veins, hemorrhoids, leg cramps, swelling, backaches, constipation, heartburn, and headache.

About 25% of all recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage for many different reasons.  The total number of miscarriages may be as high as 90% or more with many women never knowing they were pregnant.

All women's bodies are permanently changed by their pregnancy - more so if a c-section is required or it is a multiple birth.  The pelvic joints loosen allowing the pelvis to expand and some of the expansion may be permanent.

Pre-natal care is not cheap.  Delivery is not cheap.  Women who hold jobs outside the home will be out of work for varying periods.  Bed rest or hospitalization may be required to prevent a miscarriage.  If the woman is the sole/main support of her family, there can be severe financial hardship.  Single mothers may have problems caring for other children.

I know a person who adopted a "defective" fetus.  He is the sweetest boy I know.  Yes, he has to be in a wheelchair and has some medical issues, but I have been blessed by him and I know some others have as well.  I hate to think of him being aborted just because he was "defective"

It is like this song I heard.  It was about a couple who had a baby that wasn't normal.

The chorus was.

"Sometimes miracles hide

God can wrap some blessings in disguise

We may have to wait this lifetime

To see the reasons with our eyes

Because sometimes miracles hide "

janet_rose

so easily have them"?

Pregnancy is not a walk in the park.  Some women may have relatively easy pregnancies.  Other women are absolutely miserable. 

janet_rose

The only reason?  What about

• rape and incest victims
• seriously defective fetuses
• situations where the choice is between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus? 

jenn52

Incest, yes - or use the morning after pill. 

Incest usually involves children.  What kind of chance do they have of having access to the morning after pill?

jenn52

Rape, maybe (a life was created, why not place it for adoption - yes I know no one wants to carry the baby of a rapist, but they could get the morning after pill and avoid a full on abortion). 

Rape victims may be too traumatized to promptly get a morning after pill.  Carrying the baby would only further traumatize them.

jenn52

Defective fetuses - I don't think aborting every fetus with a problem is right.  Why not let them be born then die on their own? 

Oh, come on!!  It is hard enough on a woman who wants a baby to learn that it is going to die soon after birth.  Does she really need to wait months for that to happen?  How would you feel for instance if you were told your baby had no brain? 

jenn52

Life of the mother - again a situation by situation review , how often does this really happen anymore? 

How often it happens is not relevant!  A woman in the delivery room does not have time for a "review".  If the doctors can not save both, one must be sacrificed.  Catholic hospitals used to automatically sacrifice the mother - not sure what happens now. 

jenn52

But even with the miseries of pregnancy, women were designed to have babies and they've been doing it for thousands of years. 

Yes, and women have been dying in childbirth or from pregnancy complications for thousands of years, too.

jenn52

If it was that bad, no one would have any.

The urge to procreate is very strong. 

Aina

I know a person who adopted a "defective" fetus.  He is the sweetest boy I know. 

Sounds like spina bifida.  I am glad he is doing fairly well.

What about a fetus with Tay-Sachs disease?  It is a progressive, neurological condition that begins during infancy. Deterioration of the central nervous system becomes apparent at about six months of age. Symptoms include loss of coordination, blindness, deafness, seizures, and severe mental retardation. The average life expectancy is about three to five years.

These babies don't have the opportunity to be "sweet" children.  The parents grieve and watch their child suffer from 6 months until the child finally dies.  Many marriages can't survive the stress.

Can you really tell me that you would fault parents that abort a Tay-Sachs fetus? 

jenn52

But I sometimes wonder who are we to play God?

If you want to look at it that way, we are also playing God when we do a cardiac by-pass or remove an appendix. 

He gives us knowledge and free will.  We each have to do the best we can with that knowledge in our particular situation. 

My dad's choice to have a cardiac by-pass had a 97% chance of success.  We (5 kids) respected his decision to take that chance to improve his quality of life (bedridden at the time).  It was a case of the operation was a success, but the patient died.  Dad woke up briefly after successful surgery, but within hours had a massive stroke (clot broke loose).  He died about a month later without regaining consciousness again.

The surgery cut short my dad's life, but having the surgery was the right decision for our family.  Dad was not happy as he was.  Someone else might have rejected the surgery and lived a few months longer.  Neither decision is wrong as far as I am concerned. 

jenn52

But I don't think this stuff is black and white.

Amen!!  Here we are in total agreement. 

I hope no one minds me entering this conversation.

I've been debating on responding to this for a while, it can be such a sensative topic. But I've experienced so much personally with this topic that I thought I would share.

First of all I just want to say I agree that woman should have 100% control of there own bodies. Physically and emotionally a pregnancy affects us the most, I'm not saying some men won't be emotionally affected by it, but it is different for us.

Oh and please excuse my wording, I suck at trying to get what I'm thinking on paper and organizing my thoughts.

Anywho.

I got pregnant when I was 15 due to date rape. And the PP was right..the last thing on your mind is going to the hospital to get the pill. I could barely breath or function for weeks after. By then my mom had taken me to the health clinic to get me tested, because I was feeling sick. Yep, I was pregnant.

Now the first things that went through my head was, How can I even look at this child? Will "X" person try to make my life worse after by trying to be near the baby? Should I have an abortion?

At the health clinic they talked with me about it and GRAPHICALLY described and showed me and my mom pictures of what they do to abort babies. Gee thanks lady I'm even more traumatized now. I ended up going home with a heavy heart and a sick stomach. 

The next day I made an appointment with the hospital to have an abortion. I was already 9-10 weeks pregnant at this time. I was so sick I could barely move. I was rejected by my family and haunted by "X". I felt the abortion was my only option. At 15 yrs old how strong can I be?

After doing some research I discovered adoption. I honestly never even heard of adoption before that point in time. The more I read the more I felt this might be better. This might give my unborn child a chance at life. Someone who will not look at her and cry...someone to love her.

In the end I did find a family who had been trying for many many years. They were in their 40's at this point and already had one adopted daughter. So I just didn't show up to get the abortion. It was the toughest decison of my life. It was hard, because my pregnancy was very very hard on me. I ended up giving birth at 30 weeks due to too much stress.

I toyed around with keeping her, but I knew in my heart I could not love her the way I should and I could not give her the life she deserved.I did do open adoption in the end. She found a  family who *wanted* her. I could only think of "X" face for a long time after seeing her. It was the hardest and most painful decision of my entire life.

That is just my point of view from a victims perspective. I'm pro-choice though, but even I'm against abortion to a degree. But I felt there was no reason why I could not physically go through with that pregnancy, so I did it. I would never expect anyone in my past situation to do what I did though. But most importantly it was MY choice to decide what I wanted to do. "X" even tried to convince me to abort and so did his new GF- because she had one...

Now however after having 3 kids, I was just told I could not physically handle another pregnancy. It could do serious if not fatal harm to myself. Now me and my DH are taking permanent measures on his part not to get pregnant. But if I did accidentally get pregnant, I would have to abort. I have 2 other children that need me healthy and alive. I would still be devastated at doing it though. After all the things I went through with my pregnancy at 15, I would almost feel like a failed myself in a sense.

If they made abortion illegal it could potentially end my life. I know that sounds exaggerated, but its true. And its true for alot of woman. We need to stay in control of our own bodies. And I'm sorry if that leaves a few good men out to dry. I literally cringe at the thought of someone telling me or my daughter what we can and can't do with our own bodies.

Vanessa, you are quite welcome in this conversion and you have expressed yourself very well!!

I am very sorry that you had to deal with rape and a difficult pregnancy especially at such a young age.  You were an incredibly strong teenager to have dealt with the situation so well - especially with rejection by your family and having to deal with "X" (AKA the rapist jackass ).  He had a lot of nerve even speaking to you let alone trying to persuade you to abort. 

It is absolutely ridiculous for a health clinic to show graphic abortion pictures to a child and to not even mention adoption.  What was that person thinking???   

Oh, yeh - In many places anti-choice zealots have gotten laws passed that require all pregnant women considering an abortion to see such pictures - with no exclusions for scared, traumatized children.    There are also work environments with gag rules that prevent doctors from even mentioning abortion.  However, I have never heard of any laws/rules that prevent the discussion of adoption.

I am glad that at 15 you were mature enough to recognize that you were not yet prepared to be the parent of your rapist's child.    Most 15-year-olds are not even ready to be the parents of love children, but many are not mature enough to recognize that.

I am also glad that you were able to do an open adoption for your daughter.  You can be a friend (or "aunt";) now to her (plus her sister) and, when she starts asking questions, you can help explain that love for her compelled you to place her with people that were ready to raise an infant.  The fact that you could have aborted her and didn't attests to that love.  Seeing "X" when you looked at her was a symptom of your trauma - not a lack of love.

She will eventually ask about her biological father, but I hope you and the parents have planned what to tell her.  I don't envy you and/or them that discussion!  She will probably want to meet him and there is no telling what he could say to her, so she needs to know the truth.  Maybe the rapist jackass will do the world a favor and exit before she meets him. 

Geez, she might even want to meet her paternal and maternal grandparents.  That would be "interesting".  Do you think either set would accept her? 

This free site will allow you to track his criminal history.  I am sorry that he was not punished for what he did to you, but you had your hands full taking care of yourself.  I hope your mother at least tried to get him prosecuted and that she had a few carefully choosen "words" with his parents.

Do you live close enough to your daughter's parents to allow her to know her siblings as "cousins"?  How old are her siblings? 

I won't ask how old your daughter is because I usually don't ask women their age.      

I hope your life with your husband is long and happy with lots of grandkids from your three children.