Pill Thread Got Me Thinking....

calliecritturs

I just wish some of these folks with all these choices would choose to give children up for adoption so that some of us (men **and** women, by the way) who want them so badly could get them. 

And I wish the people who demand all the unwanted babies be born would actually care about their well-being, foster them, adopt them.  One of my best friends is staunchly pro-choice for no other reason than her sister works in social work and every day deals with dozens of children who were not wanted.  None of these pro-choice people have ever stepped forward to foster or adopt them, or even just offer to mentor them, take them out to the zoo, nothing.  It's sick how many unwanted, parentless children we have in this country. 

Though I am personally pro-life, this is why I always distance myself from that crowd.  They say the baby is a person with rights and deserves a life and a family and a moral upbringing, yet THEY don't seem to give a rat's *** what happens to the baby after it's born.

I personally am pro-life but I plan on adopting children (I can have children, at least I have no reason to believe I can't) but I support the right of an individual to make their own informed choice about their health every time.

Liesje

calliecritturs

I just wish some of these folks with all these choices would choose to give children up for adoption so that some of us (men **and** women, by the way) who want them so badly could get them. 

 

And I wish the people who demand all the unwanted babies be born would actually care about their well-being, foster them, adopt them.  One of my best friends is staunchly pro-choice for no other reason than her sister works in social work and every day deals with dozens of children who were not wanted.  None of these pro-choice people have ever stepped forward to foster or adopt them, or even just offer to mentor them, take them out to the zoo, nothing.  It's sick how many unwanted, parentless children we have in this country. 

Though I am personally pro-life, this is why I always distance myself from that crowd.  They say the baby is a person with rights and deserves a life and a family and a moral upbringing, yet THEY don't seem to give a rat's *** what happens to the baby after it's born.

I personally am pro-life but I plan on adopting children (I can have children, at least I have no reason to believe I can't) but I support the right of an individual to make their own informed choice about their health every time.

Children that were not wanted?  By chance, are many of these children drug addicted, or taken away from parents who have drugs?  Who are not adoptable because they are going through the foster care system until their parents (parent) can get back on her/his feet.

I did attempt to foster a child (adopt too) however, the courts deemed color to be more important that a consistent environment. 

I have two friends (yeah, I know that's a shocker) that are Hispanic, they're twins, the people that adopted them as infants were Caucasian, they grew up, not knowing how to speak Spanish (sad really, BUT).  Now, when the couple went back to adopt their brothers who were 2 and 3, they weren't allowed to because the children already knew a few words of Spanish.....

I also know a couple who fostered a child, we'll call him S, they had him many, many years, his mother never inquired to his care, nothing, they petition the court for adoption, the mother shows up, guess who has custody today!  Mommy.....Natural parent is always better;-) NOT

There are many handicapped children that need homes. If I had more money, if I could be home more, I would consider this.  I do know I have cared for a family member that has severe disabilities, I'm too tired to take on certain behaviors.  I would take a child that was HIV positive or had AIDS.  It would probably kill me, but I would.  Hell, if I could I would adopt a child from Liberia, but, I can't. 

It's NOT that easy too adopt a child, the state makes it very hard, extremely.

Heres what gets me.  It's been my experience, that many (not all) pro choice individuals, do not want women to abort, yet, the very same people are against the so called welfare system.  We can preach abstinence, we can preach so called morals, but that's not going to help or correct unwanted or unplanned pregnancy's.  Yet, those who are pro choice, let's get real here, and look at the whole picture, we can't, legislate morality. If we lived in a Leave it To Beaver world, it would be great, where there were actually two parents, people that stuck together, that thought ahead, but the world doesn't operate this way.

I'm sorry I'm off topic, but while I'm at it, another major complaint that I will take up with my maker, it seems like a drug induced person and crank out a baby a year, can get pregnant thinking about sex, but some of us, now this is just life, but it does make you go "Hmmmm what's the deal here."

calliecritturs

I just wish some of these folks with all these choices would choose to give children up for adoption so that some of us (men **and** women, by the way) who want them so badly could get them. 

There are plenty of unwanted children in the world.  Why add more? 
 

I've only read through about 1/2 the replies so far, but I can deffinitely understand points that everyone is bringing up.

Chuffy: "I did think for a minute, what if the father made a legal declaration that he did not want the baby.... "

Yea, I was thinking about that last night.  Either signing a legal doccument either saying he was taking full responsibility or none.  But then I thought, no, that's gonna get way too complicated and get too many laws/lawyers/etc involved in something that they need not be.  I guess there's not a way to really make it work out if the decision wasn't planned for ahead of time, or the people aren't on the same page after the fact.

Liilith: "It takes TWO, it takes TWO.......He was a big boy, well over 30, he knew where babies came from......"I took you at your word" sorry.....Yes, I'm bitter, yes I'm still angry, for my beautiful childs face......Did I mention, he tried to bribe me to have an abortion...."

Yea,  you're ex sounds like a complete  ::::insert nasty word here:::: .  I'm so sorry that you've had to go through that.  But your statement 'It takes TWO' is exactly what I was trying to express earlier (and maybe not very clearly)  It takes 2 to create life, but not 2 to end it.

Liesje

None of these pro-choice people have ever stepped forward to foster or adopt them, or even just offer to mentor them, take them out to the zoo, nothing.  It's sick how many unwanted, parentless children we have in this country.

I'm guessing you mean Pro-Life people want babies born....but either way, saying that that 'none' of them have stepped forward is unfair and untrue.  I'm certain my mom was pro-life and my bother was adopted.  My pastor is also pro-life and she has taken in many foster children and now all of them (15) are adopted by her.  I don't think the problem is that people don't want to adopt.  I've met quite I few who do, but as Liilith said, it isn't as easy to do as it sounds.  People have said that if we lived in a perfect world then kids would have 2 parents and live happily ever after and since we don't then we don't need to keep bringing unwanted kids into it.  Well, if we lived in a perfect world, the millions of families who want to have kids and can't would be able to go and find those kids who need families and adopt them, but unfortunately, it doesn't work that nicely.  Another struggle for adoption is people don't know what they need to do.  Whereas I would think a majority of people have an idea of how to get an abortion.

Back to the OT I guess I was wanting my perfect world where both involved parties had their rights considered, but I guess there's not a way for that to happen.  Stories like someone said about there friend coming home to find his fiance had aborted the child he wanted really bother me.  But it seems like there isn't a way to avoid that possiblity.

I'm in a philosophical mood this morning.  I've often heard (not in this forum, although I did read it here too).  "If they, were married' (paraphrased).  I suppose that would be nice.  Being a single mom is NOT something I ever planned on being, even in this day and age, it did caused me some shame, (not my child but of my circumstance).  What guarantee does marriage give.  In a no fault state either parent, husband wife can walk whenever they want to, it is THEN their true colors come out, do they still see their children, spend time, make sure the children have everything they need, and do they provide monetary support "I pay for my kid" that always makes me *** my head like a dog, thinking, uhm.....

My Mom is often saying if something happens to it, you can't get his social security for your child cause you were NOT married.......Yes, one can, his name is on the birth certificate, she has the same right a child would have born in wedlock.  If it were to die tomorrow, I would fight for everything I could get for her future, NOT for me, as I'm sure it would be said, people are ugly when it comes to money, very ugly.

I am TRULY, TRULY sorry for the parent, that has no say, that is manipulated by the courts, the parent.  Personally, I would have loved to have had a man care enough about his child to be upset that something was wrong or I had thought about aborting.  What I want, others seem to get, and vice versa, life isn't fair;-)

I am pro choice.  While it;'s not right for me, I CAN'T, CAN'T say it's wrong for someone else because I have not walked in their shoes.  I do respect those that are consistent in their personal believes "It's wrong, across the board."  My only concern, I have been there, well I can't say my pregnancy was unwanted, but I know how having an unplanned pregnancy can cause one to go postal in their minds.  I just, hope with all my heart, the women that do terminate their pregnancy's are sure this is what they want, not for today, not for next week but for the rest of their lives. 

I'm in my mid forties;-) again, if I COULD, If I COULD AFFORD it, cause, children are expensive, I would adopt, have another in a New York Minute.  It does take money, more money than the state would pay, and more than child support and my paycheck to give a child what they deserve in life, a good start.  They would have love, but food and good shelter is important too;-)

Chuffy

calliecritturs

I just wish some of these folks with all these choices would choose to give children up for adoption so that some of us (men **and** women, by the way) who want them so badly could get them. 

 

There are plenty of unwanted children in the world.  Why add more? 
 

Where did I say the adoption process was easy?  I don't believe it is.  

There are a lot of kids in the UK that are unwanted/neglected/abused.  Just like in any other part of the world. 

Liilith

What guarantee does marriage give. 

Currently, none at all because not enough people take it seriously IMO.   

Liesje

I guess that makes me a hypocrite (fight for a right that I could never personally exercise), but so be it. 

Liesje, you are definitely not a hypocrite!!  You are a very normal member of the pro-choice community.

There are lots of people in the pro-choice community (me included) who want/wanted children and would not abort one.  That group is probably the vast majority of the pro-choice community.

I don't know anyone who is pro-abortion.  The pro-choice community defends a woman's right to have a child and the woman's right to not have a child, so I consider myself pro-life and pro-choice. 

Pushing someone to have an abortion when they really want to have a child is unconscionable.  The only exception I can think of to that is when the woman's life (or health) is seriously threatened by the pregancy.  I had a friend (juvenile diabetic) who insisted on carrying a pregnancy even though her doctors told here that, if she survived the pregnancy, she had a 50-50 chance of going blind.  Her poor husband was frantic with worry. 

The woman choose to take a very serious risk with her life, but there is no justification for forcing women to take that kind of risk.  After several months in the hospital going in and out of diabetic comas, my friend wound up with a healthy baby girl, her sight intact, amazed doctors, and a very, very relieved husband.  He could have been a widower with a baby to raise alone. 

ETA:  He was completely willing to adopt and loves his little girl (an adult today) dearly.

I have seen little girls (obviously the victims of statutory rape) brought into clinics by their parents.  Some were so young that it is doubtful that they really understood what was going on (handed daddy the paperwork to fill out because that is something daddys do).  The abortion saved their childhood and maybe their health or lives.  I don't understand why anyone would want those little girls to try to carry a pregnancy.

Those in the anti-choice community call themselves "pro-life".  I consider them control freaks who want to control the lives and sexual behavior of other people.  Many of them favor the death penality - strange dichotomy.  The ones that even want to ban condoms simply boggle my mind. 

TheDogHouseBCMPD

I'm guessing you mean Pro-Life people want babies born....but either way, saying that that 'none' of them have stepped forward is unfair and untrue.  I'm certain my mom was pro-life and my bother was adopted.  My pastor is also pro-life and she has taken in many foster children and now all of them (15) are adopted by her.  I don't think the problem is that people don't want to adopt. 

I was mainly talking about every person I know that is staunchly pro-life.  I don't know a single person who has gone so far as to even just mentor an orphaned child or volunteer for an after school program.  I know many many families that adopt since my mom worked for one of the largest agencies in the world and a good number of my friends and relatives are adopted.  But there's not enough people willing to adopt or foster to meet the needs of the children in this country.  That's not to say that there aren't good people doing their share and then some, but in my experience there is a BIG problem with pro-life people not concerning themselves with the lives of needy children.  One of the biggest pro-lifers I know will go on and on about abortion killing babies and in the same breath put down the needy and at-risk children that go to his school like they are scum and don't deserve the same chance as everyone else.  He simply cannot be bothered to help with someone else's "problem".

TheDogHouseBCMPD

It seems to me that with all the focus on women should have right to choice, that men's rights are pushed off to the side. 

You're right, but in any situation where you have two people who disagree, only one person is going to get their way.  If the man gets to make the decision on whether or not the pregnancy is carried, then he is is either

• subjecting the woman to an involuntary medical procedure or
• forcing the woman to endure the restrictions, discomfort, and pain of a pregnancy.

Once the man has provided the sperm, he is only an observer.  He doesn't have to endure the hormone changes.  His health and life are not threatened.

The man does have an emotional stake and a financial stake when he fathers a child, but a woman has the right to decide her own medical issues.

janet_rose

TheDogHouseBCMPD

It seems to me that with all the focus on women should have right to choice, that men's rights are pushed off to the side. 

You're right, but in any situation where you have two people who disagree, only one person is going to get their way.  If the man gets to make the decision on whether or not the pregnancy is carried, then he is is either

• subjecting the woman to an involuntary medical procedure or
• forcing the woman to endure the restrictions, discomfort, and pain of a pregnancy.

Once the man has provided the sperm, he is only an observer.  He doesn't have to endure the hormone changes.  His health and life are not threatened.

The man does have an emotional stake and a financial stake when he fathers a child, but a woman has the right to decide her own medical issues.

very well put!!

 Well, there is always a prenuptial agreement... thats a guarantee, right?

Yeah, ok, I know... not taking marriage seriously.  If there is no way out you will work things out.  (Except in the case of infidelity or abuse.  Then it is fine to ditch the jerk.)

 
Really, even after I get married I am not having kids for a few years unless something unexpected happens.  I want to solidify the marriage before dealing with kids. 

When I do have kids I will ADOPT them except for maybe one natural.   I know a lot of pro-life people who adopt.  The lady who runs the pregnancy support clinic here has two adoptees that are young.  They adopted them right about when their other kids were leaving the house.
  Another couple adopted a son and then got a pair of twin girls right after that because no one else was willing to take Hispanic children.  WTH?  They are so cute!    I know quite a few other people who have adopted and some of my friends were adopted.

Unfortunately to adopt I will probably have to be rich or save up.  The only couple I know who are not well off or getting paid by the government who adopted are still paying for their child and she is almost six. 

We gave care of "unwanted" children to the government and guess what happened?  They screwed it up.  Big shocker there, eh?
 

calliecritturs

The word 'choice' sounds so much more like *convenience*  ... *sigh*

I understand what you mean.  For some women it is convenience, but for so many women it isn't.  I even met one poor woman whose "abortion" was just a technicality.  Her much wanted baby had died in the womb.  She had to put up with protesters yelling "don't kill your baby".  Grrrr!

Our society certainly doesn't need

• more drug-damaged babies 
• teenagers and women commiting suicide
• women trying to carry pregnancies which will only result in babies that are not viable
• children being abused by parents who don't want them
• etc.

I don't know what the solution is.  There are lots of kids being raised by parents that have no business being responsible for a child.  There are lots of kids languishing in the foster system because the parents will not give up their rights, but have no reasonable expectation of regaining custody.  There are a lot of adoption rules that are well-intentioned, but which result in less adoptions.

There is much less stigma now against unwed mothers so those that opt against abortion are often choosing to keep their babies.  Maybe we should encourage very young teenage mothers without family support to allow both themselves and their babies to be adopted by the same family.