rwbeagles-LAPD profiling Muslims

sillysally

I DO NOT want this issue to turn into some sort of political correctness hot potato to the point that security officers are afraid to question/search someone they feel is suspicious because they could be sued/fired, etc.  I want security to do their job.  If some white soccer mom is acting suspicious, she needs to be questioned, but by the same token if some young Middle Eastern man is acting suspicious, he needs to be questioned as well.   

Well said.  I want the flight where they're searching EVERYBODY who looks suspicious.

 profiling is sad but, currently the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks are perpetrated by muslims.  its a sad but very real fact. i am not trying to make this a flame war but the writing has been on the wall. frankly in this world nothing surprises me anymore.

Behaviour profiling is effective.   Base suspicion on that. 

 First they came for the African-Americans,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't black.

Then they came for the Hispanic,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't Hispanic.

Then they came for the Muslims,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't Muslim.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Sorry, but it's just too true not to say... I avoided this thread for a while, too scared about what I'd read when it had 15 replies, then 25, 35, and now close to 50..so I gave in... It's really rather disgusting, and I wish I'd continued avoiding it...

cat0

Well said.  I want the flight where they're searching EVERYBODY who looks suspicious.

As do I. I have not stated that I think only Muslims should be looked at. The thread was in reference to Muslims. Nor do I think all Muslims are suspect even though I have been accused of that.

 I just do not have a problem with profiling if it makes sense to do so.

dgriego

I have been labeled a bigot in this thread, of which you seem to agree based on your statement.

It isn't against the rules dg, to get upset when someone doesn't agree...that is human. I think we've debated here quite civilly you and I.

As to the word you use above? I'd simply say, that is a word I haven't used on this thread directed towards you, or actually...at all.

I don't know you, but, I do now...know your views on this one matter...and that's valuable, and worth starting the thread for...it's what I wanted...views on the matter.

I actually make it pretty clear when speaking as a mod...if you notice...it always goes 'Moderator here..." or "Moderator speaking..." etc.

I asked that you not include me in your reference to what the world has brought "us" to because I am not in the same place as you are with what I feel is necessary to keep my family safe. In fact I'd say we're pretty far apart on that..fair statement?

rwbeagles

dgriego

a few radicals who happen to be Muslim but who are willing to commit acts of terrorism have brought us to this place.

DG, small request...please don't say "us"...I am no where NEAR...your "us".

Sorry, but we are all in this together.  A terrorist hell bent on taking out westerners (or heck, just any innocent people) would as easily kill you as they would me as they would dgriego or inne, regardless of their feelings towards ethnic profiling, simply because we are where we are.  Suicide bombers do not stop to ask everyone's feelings on civil rights before blowing themselves and countless souls away.  We are all facing the same threat together, and if we separate ourselves from each other and squabble amongst ourselves rather than deal with said threat, well, frankly that is a future that I'd rather not contemplate.  As the saying goes, "United we stand, divided we fall."

DH and I were searched and I our luggage gone over twice on a return flight from the UP in Michigan.....we are both white with light colored hair.....why were we searched....simple, we missed our connecting flight from Detroit going to Marquette and that flagged us as our luggage went ahead of us....we were able to get the next flight.....did we have a problem with it? NO.....we understood why it was happening....

Profiling is a necessary tool imo......why would one try to search an old white lady when it is known most terrorists are muslim?

Moderators note:  I expect this thread to remain a respectful exchange of ideas WITHOUT baiting and namecalling.  We are adults and can discuss our different opinions without malice.  Clearly this is going to be a hot topic.  Anytime any humans civil rights are involved things can become heated.  However, lets remember that Nice matters here.

snownose

DH and I were searched and I our luggage gone over twice on a return flight from the UP in Michigan.....we are both white with light colored hair.....why were we searched....simple, we missed our connecting flight from Detroit going to Marquette and that flagged us as our luggage went ahead of us....we were able to get the next flight.....did we have a problem with it? NO.....we understood why it was happening....

Isolated incidents of white people being searched are not comparable to the institutional categorization of all Muslim people as potential suspects.

Profiling is a necessary tool imo......why would one try to search an old white lady when it is known most terrorists are muslim?

Why not use behaviour profiling instead?    That doesn't offend or suspend anyone's civil liberties, it is evidence-based and it works. 

inne

snownose

DH and I were searched and I our luggage gone over twice on a return flight from the UP in Michigan.....we are both white with light colored hair.....why were we searched....simple, we missed our connecting flight from Detroit going to Marquette and that flagged us as our luggage went ahead of us....we were able to get the next flight.....did we have a problem with it? NO.....we understood why it was happening....

Isolated incidents of white people being searched are not comparable to the institutional categorization of all Muslim people as potential suspects.

Profiling is a necessary tool imo......why would one try to search an old white lady when it is known most terrorists are muslim?

 

Why not use behaviour profiling instead?    That doesn't offend or suspend anyone's civil liberties, it is evidence-based and it works. 

Let's turn this around....let's say that western people were known to be part of terrorism in a foreign county, and I were to travel there, would I be shocked if I were searched ? NO............it makes sense to me, actually......

This says "in reply to snownose" but I'm really replying to a bunch of things...

Ethical issues aside, using a human's physical appearance to determine if they are a potential threat is NOT effective. Skin color and bone structure are not good predictors of behavior nor are they fool proof predictors of religious affiliation or ethnicity. 

What does a Muslim look like? or What does a sucidal Muslim extremist look like? (isn't that what we're looking for???)

Seriously, if you describe a young man with a certain skin color and bone structure you'll be including people of Arabic descent and Greek and Italian etc....

So we decide to stop every young man who looks vaguely Middle Eastern. So now we're sure to get all the terrorists right?

WRONG The Middle East is not the sole exporter of religious extremists to the rest of the world.  There are millions of Muslims in the former Soviet countries and some of them are extremists who believe in killing people who are the "wrong" religion and they've done it. There are also Muslim extremists in Asia who have committed terrorist acts.

So lets expand the profile---for  example we will now scrutinize anyone with skin tones that fall in this range: from pasty white skin (Russians/Bosnians) to super dark black skin (Ghana). I think this brings us back to searching everyone, doesn't it?

Look, I realize that the 9/11 terrorists all fit a certain profile but believing that every terrorist fits that profile defies common sense and reality.

snownose

Let's turn this around....let's say that western people were known to be part of terrorism in a foreign county, and I were to travel there, would I be shocked if I were searched ? NO............it makes sense to me, actually......

If you traveled there? What if you LIVED there? Would it still be okay? I don't think so. There is a big difference between being singled out a few times in a foreign country because of recent events and being singled out/identified as a potential threat by your own government in the country of your birth.

There is also a difference between being searched as part of a mixed group and being searched when the only people pulled out of line all look alike.

As I said before, skin color and bone structure are not good predictors of behavior. Making an entire group of people subject to special scrutiny because of their physical appearance is wrong. It creates an oppressive atmosphere for all of us on many levels. It is more than airport searches---it is the government identifying one group of people as suspect.

I guess we're all too young to remember the Japanese internment camps...

inne

Why not use behaviour profiling instead?    That doesn't offend or suspend anyone's civil liberties, it is evidence-based and it works. 

Polarexpress....has it occured to you that maybe there haven't been any attacks in this country because, the government keeps close tabs on certain people in this country?

I think all it would take is to have a few shopping malls or schools blown up, or maybe even some nutter blowing himself up at a bus stop for some folks to change their minds....it's all nice to feel warm and cozy in our towns or cities,as we were not not attacked on 9/11....if that were closer to home some would change their minds.....