rwbeagles-LAPD profiling Muslims

I'd like to know what "behavior profiling" is, also....for example, are we going to stop everyone who looks nervous at an airport? What about people with anxiety disorders who would be "unfairly targeted" simply because of how they look/act?  No matter what you base profiling on, *someone* is going to be offended....its the nature of the beast, and people tend towards being overly sensitive.

polarexpress

Look, I realize that the 9/11 terrorists all fit a certain profile

polarexpress

but believing that every terrorist fits that profile defies common sense and reality.

Who else do you want to exclude from scrutiny?  Because I still want snownose searched when she loses her luggage. 

This is always going to be a hot topic. I think there will always be cases of persons who will be stopped and searched because they fit someone's profile. Whether that is younger people who may look like someone's interpretation of a gangster or whether it is someone who fits someone else's view of a terrorist.

It is an unstable world at best and the government IMO is only trying to prevent a reoccurrence of 9/11, they may grab the wrong person at times, which will always cause some to cry foul and human rights violation, but they have to do the best they can do to prevent terrorism.

 Someone posted earlier something about not wanting the authorities to get so caught up in being politically correct that they fail to stop a person who should have been stopped, just because they are afraid that activists will cry foul and accuse them of racism and religious prosecution. I agree with that. We have to be careful and allow the authorities to question and do their jobs while being diligent that they do not overstep their boundaries and start imprisoning people based off their looks, or religion.

 The link posted in this thread may or may not be an overstep. Since it seems to be supported by some in the community I tend to side with it not being. Those who are there and witnessing it are probably the ones who need to raise the flag if it is something inappropriate.

  I really do not notice when boarding an aircraft if there happens to be anyone of Middle Eastern origins onboard. But if I saw the authorities pulling aside someone of Middle Eastern origins I would not automatically assume it is because the authorities are bigots. I would assume they have reason for doing so and that they are trying to do their jobs and ensure my safety. I also would not feel sorry for the person, no more than I would any other person pulled aside for questioning or search. It is what it is, these are dangerous times, the best thing people can do is let them do their job.

snownose

Polarexpress....has it occured to you that maybe there haven't been any attacks in this country because, the government keeps close tabs on certain people in this country?

Keeping tabs on people because of behavior and known affiliations is not the same as searching everyone who looks a certain way before they get on a plane. Perhaps profiling could serve as a deterrant---but profiling based on looks is NOT an effective way of identifying all Muslim extremists.

Think about it: if you want to plan an attack on US soil do you send the obvious looking guy from Syria? or do you send a Chechen whose rebellion you've been financing for years? If the bad guys have half a brain they send the Chechen who wants to create a Muslim state.

I think all it would take is to have a few shopping malls or schools blown up, or maybe even some nutter blowing himself up at a bus stop for some folks to change their minds....it's all nice to feel warm and cozy in our towns or cities,as we were not not attacked on 9/11....if that were closer to home some would change their minds.....

If this is meant to imply that I seem to have forgotten about 9-11 and therefore feel warm and safe in my home, then I beg to differ.  

Where I live you can't help but know someone who was related to/friends with/lived near someone on either AA Flight 11 and UA Flight 175 because they originated in Boston. My brother was good friends with two people who were in the towers that day---only one survived.  My brother was haunted by the scenes of people falling from the towers because he was convinced he saw his friend die.

As for "close to home"....I live very close to a nuclear power plant.  The school's evacuation plan is part of the fall paperwork blitz so we'll know what city our kids have been sent to in case the nuke plant malfunctions or is blown up. When is the last time a fully armed fighter jet screamed over your house because it was called to intercept an aircraft too close to the local nuke plant?

We also live in the flight path for an air refueling wing so we see lots of huge military planes on a regular basis. 

I think it is safe to say that I live with a pretty good awareness of terrorism. If another plane is hijacked the terrorists could try to turn the nuke plant into a bomb instead of hitting a symbolic building so my butt is on the line as much or more than any other average American citizen....

cat0

Who else do you want to exclude from scrutiny?  Because I still want snownose searched when she loses her luggage. 

I don't want to exclude anyone! I think by focusing on one group we will overlook a real threat. I don't want airport screeners to ignore the Slavic-looking guy because he doesn't "look" like a terrorist and find out later that he was a nutjob with plastic explosives in his dental work.

As for snownose and her luggage LOL I propose profiling based on dog ownership so she's probably okay. People without dogs will need to be looked at carefully...

polarexpress

People without dogs will need to be looked at carefully...

Behaviour profiling happens all the time in a huge variety of contexts.   Amazon.com conducts behaviour profiling, for example - based on your consumer habits, they are able to target their advertisement towards your specific behaviours, increasing the likelihood of you purchasing a product from them.   It is psychological profiling.    The profile used in law enforcement is sophisticated, put together by experts in the field based on patterns of behaviour (both voluntary and involuntary - body language, facial expressions, and vocal expression for example) that signal the likelihood of criminality as determined through extensive, empirically-supported study.   It is not that a specific behaviour is singled out, it is that a behavioural composite is made.   This requires training and is much harder than suspecting all men perceived to be Arab, for example, but it is used with great success at all levels of law enforcement and by airline and security employees to combat terrorism, drug trafficking, etc. and it has been proven to work tremendously well by a variety of studies.   Some companies have developed and are developing automated behaviour-monitoring equipment and sensors.   Israel's El Al airline and other Israeli organizations are particularly noteworthy for their use of and success with behaviour profiling.   It also minimizes the huge blind spots religious and racial profiling leave in attempts to monitor terrorist organizations.  And it's legal.

It is not that no one should be questioned.   It's that suspicion should be based on evidence.  

snownose

Let's turn this around....let's say that western people were known to be part of terrorism in a foreign county, and I were to travel there, would I be shocked if I were searched ? NO............it makes sense to me, actually......

I would object to that if it violated civil liberties in that country.   Plus, I have 2 passports.   In a year, I will have 3.   If I actually was a terrorist, I would just use a passport that didn't create suspicion and they would miss me altogether.   I would also be concerned for the people of that country if they used such ineffective profiling methods.

As for your belief that more attacks would change people's minds, I don't agree.   No one I knew in England supported racial, religious and ethnic profiling even after numerous attacks.   None of my Israeli friends support racial, religious and ethnic profiling.  Attacks have happened in two countries I have lived in and it has not changed my mind.   

inne

None of my Israeli friends support racial, religious and ethnic profiling.  Attacks have happened in two countries I have lived in and it has not changed my mind.

I can't speak for all Israelis, neither can you..............but, if you know how Israel operates then you know the airports are heavily guarded by military, how do you know how they profile.....would you go for something like that in your country?

I'm only reporting the opinions of my Israeli friends, like I said, not all Israelis.  I think Israel has some oppressive policies and they have some fantastic, effective policies that others can learn from.   I don't support the whole Israeli model.