how you disipline?!?!

People use a crate the way the you use the tiles. Any animal instinctively avoids peeing where it sleeps. So, the idea is that a dog in it's crate will not pee. Then, you must get them outside where they will pee. After a while, the learn to hold it until they get outside. Then, you translate the crate to the house, which is a bigger crate. Eventually, they won't pee in the house, as they won't pee where they sleep. In the wild, momma won't let them pee in the den. She will bump and lead them outside, where they can pee their bladder away.
 

My dogs understand NRM's.  A NRM is a "no reward marker".  Just as a "yes" or a "click" signals the dog that he has done something right, a NRM, like "oops" signals that no reward is due.  The dog that is consistently trained this way from puppyhood understands what you are telling him because you have made it plain in terms of consequences, which dogs understand, but only in the moment.
They certainly don't understand that pee'ing on the nice white carpet (Who the heck owns dogs and has white carpet anyway??? Are you up all night wiping muddy paws?) is wrong three hours after the fact.  They cower because every time they see you coming in the door you seem angry.  Cowering is just a dog's way of appeasing the leader.  Needless to say, if you aren't appeased, and keep punishing, you will create one of two things: a dog that mistrusts and fears you, or a dog that will eventually tell you it's had enough. 
Hitting a dog is considered cruelty in many states, just as it is illegal to hit children.  Fortunately, there are ways to train that are successfully employed every day, and don't involve barbarism.
I find it amusing that I am bombarded with emails about +R being stupid, and CM being great, and telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.  Yet, I have five dogs, none of whom fail to come when called, and all of whom (unless they reach extreme old age and become incontinent) are perfectly housetrained.  Three of them are therapy dogs.  One has the following skills at the age of 10 months: sit, lie, wait, leave it, put your frisbee away, come, spin, shake, high five, weave through my legs, paws up, paws down, and a host of other commands.  Apparently, since my dogs are so well behaved, I haven't a clue, and this non-hitting crap doesn't work, right?  Gimme a break. [sm=banghead002.gif]
Sometimes, I do feel like hitting, though - but, not the dogs.  When, oh when, will these stupid ideas die?????!!!!!!!
Have any of the hitting advocates here ever read The Culture Clash??????
Have you read any legitimate books on dog behavior????  (LIndsay, Overall, Hetts, Rogerson, Aloff, Pryor?)
Instead of typing your inexperience all over a message board, why not FIRST read the top ten books for dog trainers on dogwise.com?

ORIGINAL: Pooch_luvr

when i point to the stain and say to one of them "what is THAT?" they coward so they have to understand!

 
You could point to ANYTHING, I believe, and speak to your dog IN THE SAME TONE OF VOICE, as when you are scolding them, and they would cower.  It wouldn't even matter WHAT you said.  I mean, you could, in your grumbly, scolding tone of voice, point to the TV and say, "The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain," and your dog would cower.
 
I have never worked with a trainer, and I have worked with 4, who thought there was any benefit at all in scolding a dog UNLESS you can catch him in the act and scold him then.

ORIGINAL: willowchow

I was going to post but I can't. . .what kind of people are joining this forum lately. . .[:@]

 
Steady there, Willow.  []  Years ago, the way you housebroke a dog was to stick his nose in the mess and smack him with a newspaper.

SpiritDogs--
 
Instead of typing your inexperience all over a message board, why not FIRST read the top ten books for dog trainers on dogwise.com?
 
Er...and who exactly on this message board are you referring to...I don't think anyone here advocated hitting dogs....

whtsthfrequency -I don't think anyone here advocated hitting dogs....

 
The OP did.
 
Kate

I don't mean you have to abuse them , not at all, i just mean a spanking or a little smack on the bottom to be a reminder

Doesn't sound like he/she approves of hitting dogs...."hitting" is not "a light smack on the bottom"....I think people ovvereacted a little. IMHO. Perhaps it was just a poorly worded post. I prefer to think the best of people's intentions.

When we were housebreaking Sally EVERYTHING I read said that if you don't catch the animal in the act, don't bother doing anything but cleaning the mess up out of their line of sight.  Even if you DO catch them in the act, something like "What did you do?" in a stern voice and taking the animal outside immediately was the most severe correction suggested. 

As do I, but the OP clarified in a later post that she does not use her hand, but a rolled up newspaper. IMHO that IS hitting.
 
I was up all night with a migraine, maybe I am just overly grumpy today.
 
Kate

UNLESS you can catch him in the act and scold him then.

 
Why would you want to scold a dog when it's YOUR mistake for missing his signals, giving him too much freedom too soon, etc?
 
Steady there, Willow.  []  Years ago, the way you housebroke a dog was to stick his nose in the mess and smack him with a newspaper.
 
I'll take exception to that.  I'm old enough to KNOW the old ways, but I sure never used them.
 
 

ORIGINAL: glenmar

UNLESS you can catch him in the act and scold him then.


Why would you want to scold a dog when it's YOUR mistake for missing his signals, giving him too much freedom too soon, etc?

Steady there, Willow.  []  Years ago, the way you housebroke a dog was to stick his nose in the mess and smack him with a newspaper.
 
I'll take exception to that.  I'm old enough to KNOW the old ways, but I sure never used them.

 
I don't know.  That's what the articals that came up when I googled "housebreaking adult dog." 

ORIGINAL: willowchow

This is just bothering me more and more. . .spanking a dog and spanking a child are two different things. 

 
AMEN!  Their comprehension is not the same, and their behaviors are not the same.  I don't see any valid reason to spank/swat/strike a dog with a hand/newspaper or other item for them peeing on the carpet.  Glenda is totally right - it's the OWNER's fault for not watching their puppy better.  I consider myself a balanced handler/trainer and not strictly R+, so I do use physical corrections (leash and collar, etc) but I do not see a valid reason for swatting your dog in these instances.
 
Also, please consider that Spiritdogs is a professional trainer who has also studied dozens of other professional trainers for years.  To advise her to go read books was off the mark and insulting.

Also, please consider that Spiritdogs is a professional trainer who has also studied dozens of other professional trainers for years. To advise her to go read books was off the mark and insulting.

 
Who advised that? I thought she was the only one who mentioned books
 
And Benedict - I must have missed the newspaper comment.....in that case, I agree that the OP needs to change her methods ASAP.

ORIGINAL: miranadobe

ORIGINAL: willowchow

This is just bothering me more and more. . .spanking a dog and spanking a child are two different things. 

AMEN!  Their comprehension is not the same, and their behaviors are not the same.  I don't see any valid reason to spank/swat/strike a dog with a hand/newspaper or other item for them peeing on the carpet.  Glenda is totally right - it's the OWNER's fault for not watching their puppy better.  I consider myself a balanced handler/trainer and not strictly R+, so I do use physical corrections (leash and collar, etc) but I do not see a valid reason for swatting your dog in these instances.

Also, please consider that Spiritdogs is a professional trainer who has also studied dozens of other professional trainers for years.  To advise her to go read books was off the mark and insulting.

 
It was Spiritdogs that advised the OP to go read the books.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

UNLESS you can catch him in the act and scold him then.


Why would you want to scold a dog when it's YOUR mistake for missing his signals, giving him too much freedom too soon, etc?
 

 
Because it works, IF you catch him in the act.  When I am talking "scold" I do not mean hitting the dog, of course.

Steady there, Willow.  []  Years ago, the way you housebroke a dog was to stick his nose in the mess and smack him with a newspaper.
 
I'll take exception to that.  I'm old enough to KNOW the old ways, but I sure never used them.

 
I am sure you realize that just because you didn't employ the method, doesn't mean that many people didn't, nor does it mean that those who did did so without success.