how you disipline?!?!

 

will say this once more.  I have had MANY litters through my doors, some my own, some fosters, ranging from purebed cockers, to shepherds to mutts.  I have NEVER seen a momma dog scruff a pup to discipline.  Not once in all the years of litters.  Momma might do a gentle nose nudge or "the look", but NEVER have I seen scruffing. And screaming NO does not tell a dog what you want it to do.

The wolf, an extremly close cousin to our domesticated version, disipline there pups on a regular basis. (i being an animal planet and discovery channel watcher on occasion) have seen shows of wild wolves (escpecially the alpha female)disipline the pups with yelps, bites, and everytjing in between. I understand you are a trainer, probably has A LOt more knowledge than I, but i have to disagree with this one!

A much eaiser way to handle the peeing on the carpet while your gone would be to crate train, if your pup is doing this while your there, you have not picked up on your pups signals of when he needs to go. If you keep up with the newspaper it's going to just take you longer to potty train, your pup will still go on your carpet but it will be somewhere that you don't see it because your right they are smart.

the crate should NEVER be used as a disipline tool for a dog. the point of the crate is to be used as comfort and a place when you are away, never to be a "bad' thing! 

ORIGINAL: glenmar


*Maybe* scruffing is how wolves discipline, although I've never seen that either in all the documentaries I've watched on wolves. 

 
Actually, there was a documentary that I watched that was about young wolves raised by experienced wolf experts and handlers, in order to bolster a capitve breeding program.  The young wolves were disiplined by the humans using alpha rolls, a bit of scruffing, and muzzle-holds with the humans actually growing at them.  The young wolves fit seamlessly into the pack after they were ready to join it, even with an alpha female that worried the caretakers (she had organized a pack take-over which involved killing her father).

ORIGINAL: stardog85
I will admit that I've 'spanked' Maggie a few times, especially after an unwarranted lunge after another dog, HOWEVER that was in the heat of the moment and I regret ever doing such a thing - all she can connect it to is me looking/sounding mad and catching her - she'll look very apologetic, but it doesn't decrease the frequency of lunges and may in fact add to the stress that causes them s it obviously doesn't work for her. 

I'm working on my reaction to her aggressive outbursts, lots more concerning than housebreaking imo, and none of the things I'm working on involve hitting my dog; a long down stay or relaxation protocol, yes, hitting NO!

 
Isn't it amazing how dogs have the ability to teach us patience? I will admit, sheepishly, that like you I have had more than one outburst with my dogs. I've never hit them, but I've just tapped them on the behind a few times. I always regret losing my temper and each time it happens, I realize how I could handle the situation better next time. Neither of my dogs are afraid of me, but together we are learning how I need to discipline them and how they need to act. I am just amazed every day at the lessons they teach me. I hope they forgive me for my faults, because I know they are helping to make me a better, more patient person.
 
This board has taught me so much about training dogs and just dealing with dogs in general. I'm especially in awe of Glenda (of course--who isn't? []) and her 6 GSDs. I would love to see all of them--they sound so well behaved. I wish my two were even a fraction as well mannered.
 
I know that didn't add much to the thread. Just my [sm=2cents.gif] for the day!

Actually, there was a documentary that I watched that was about young wolves raised by experienced wolf experts and handlers, in order to bolster a capitve breeding program.  The young wolves were disiplined by the humans using alpha rolls, a bit of scruffing, and muzzle-holds with the humans actually growing at them.  The young wolves fit seamlessly into the pack after they were ready to join it, even with an alpha female that worried the caretakers (she had organized a pack take-over which involved killing her father).

 
ha! i saw that same show and i was refering to that along with a few other wolf shows i've seen!

ORIGINAL: Pooch_luvr

A much eaiser way to handle the peeing on the carpet while your gone would be to crate train, if your pup is doing this while your there, you have not picked up on your pups signals of when he needs to go. If you keep up with the newspaper it's going to just take you longer to potty train, your pup will still go on your carpet but it will be somewhere that you don't see it because your right they are smart.

the crate should NEVER be used as a disipline tool for a dog. the point of the crate is to be used as comfort and a place when you are away, never to be a "bad' thing!

I think you're misunderstanding this poster's meaning and purpose of crate training. Crate training is not to send your dog to the crate when it pees on the floor.

When you house train your dog in conjunction with crate training, what that means is that you crate the dog when you are away from home, or when you cannot directly supervise the dog (and thus see the signals that it needs to go). Dogs typically will not soil their sleeping area. In other words you are setting the pup up to succeed by not allowing it to find places to potty when you cannot directly supervise.

OK, couple of things.  First, I am not and have NEVER claimed to be a trainer.
 
Second, using a crate while you are away is NOT a form of punishment.
 
Christina, I wonder about the validity tho of human intervention with the young wolves.  Perhaps those pups would have worked things out just fine in the pack without human maniulation?
 
NO is the word that is always, always, ALWAYS gonna come out of my mouth in an emergency, so I sure don't want to over expose them to that word.  I honestly believe that it saved my foot when that drag line was wrapped around my ankle and biting into my flesh.  I guess that MY sharp word to stop them in their tracks if I need to distract them is simply their NAMES.  I don't have a major problem with NO followed by a command, but I do have a problem with folks who think that their dogs KNOW what the word means just because it comes out of their mouths.

Hitting is NEVER the way to go. With a dominant type of dog you will eventually create an aggressive, unpredictable dog. With a submissive dog, I cannot even begin to mention the effects of that. The most obvious is a dog that is terrified of your every movement.
 
My first dog was a dominant, hell on earth cockapoo. Back in those days, my mother was with the rolled up paper fad. When that dog got bigger he would lunge at anyone that tried to smack him, and my mom eventually took him to the pound because he was unpredictable. I can bet a small fortune that he would have turned out different if she#%92d never laid a hand on him.
 
A second example: My sisters uncle was the type of person who believed that to get a good guard dog you had to beat him. Well his daughter got a Boxer pup and he beat him from day one and that bouncy puppy quickly turned into a cowering ball of fear that couldn#%92t be approached by anyone.
 
Now I will admit, I use the word ‘No#%92 and while Lizzie may or may not understand what it means, it gets her attention and stops the unwanted behavior (i.e. herding my son) Now I don#%92t yell at her. The handful of times I yelled at her as a new pet owner, Ive regretted them a million times. She would cower, urinate and just act like a severely abused pup.
 
You get NOTHING from spanking or yelling at a dog. Well maybe that#%92s untrue, you can get a dog rigidly trained by beating them, but what point is it to have a well trained dog that cowers at the sight of you?
 
Spanking a child also gets you nothing, he may not become a woman beater or a murderer but take two kids and put them in the same room. You can tell by the confidence and joy that the child experiences which one has not been beaten. The same goes for a dog

ORIGINAL: Pooch_luvr

A much eaiser way to handle the peeing on the carpet while your gone would be to crate train, if your pup is doing this while your there, you have not picked up on your pups signals of when he needs to go. If you keep up with the newspaper it's going to just take you longer to potty train, your pup will still go on your carpet but it will be somewhere that you don't see it because your right they are smart.

the crate should NEVER be used as a disipline tool for a dog. the point of the crate is to be used as comfort and a place when you are away, never to be a "bad' thing! 

 
I may be wrong on this, but I don't think this post was suggesting using the crate for discipline. Crates are pretty commonly used as a way of potty training a dog. I didn't use this method, but from what I understand, you take the dog outside and if they don't go potty, you put them in their crate for a few minutes and try again.
 
I agree though that the crate should not be used as punishment. But again, I don't think that potty training your dog using a crate is punishment.

I've used Strauss's crate as a discinplinary tool in one way I guess you could say. When he was young if he got too riled up or did something extremely unacceptable like chasing my 15 year old cat, he was sent to his crate for a "time out".  It's really just a place for him to go and chill out.  Didn't effect his love for his crate at all.  He goes in and out of it as he pleases, runs to it like a bat out of hell when it's dinner time, and happily sleeps in it at night.
 
Whenever I put Strauss in time out, it was only for about 10 minutes, so we could both calm down, and usually, by the time I went to let him out, he was either chewing on his knuckle bone, or he had fallen asleep.

Second, using a crate while you are away is NOT a form of punishment.

 
 
Oh, whoops, fogive me, i thought that was the point that was trying to get across there! sorry!

sorry Glenda, i was just trying to say that you are much more knowlegable than me, not imparticular to you being a trainer!

third, My dogs are all fully crate trained a potty trained! i was only trying to get some of your opinions. we all have our own way of training and most of us, me being one, have very well trained dogs!
i was only trying to get the question out!
 
 

I think the book "The Other End of the Leash" really helps to understand how our methods, words, actions, etc. translate to our dogs.  It was really enlightening and I highly recommend it.
 
Having rescued a dog with fear aggression, I know firsthand the consequence of using physical punishment on a dog.  It can take a long time or even a lifetime to unlearn and for some dogs it can mean a death sentence when they attack someone out of fear.

NO is the word that is always, always, ALWAYS gonna come out of my mouth in an emergency, so I sure don't want to over expose them to that word.

 
I think that if you are one to never raise your voice and then all of a sudden you do, that's what's stopping them, not the word.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Christina, I wonder about the validity tho of human intervention with the young wolves.  Perhaps those pups would have worked things out just fine in the pack without human maniulation?

 
I really can't speak to that, but I can say that the pups were taken away from their mothers from birth (as soon as they were dry), and were hand raised by this woman's family and her gazillion GSDs.
 
You could be right, but the woman seemed very concerned about how this alpha female would react (they weren't her pups).  The pups didn't seem afraid of the people went they walked into the encloser after they were released.
 
I think the shoe was called "Growing Up Wolf," but I'm not sure.

I think the book "The Other End of the Leash" really helps to understand how our methods, words, actions, etc. translate to our dogs.  It was really enlightening and I highly recommend it.

I agree with Cathy--This book is excellent. I just read it myself and it makes you think a different way about how you come off to your dog. Hitting is never a good idea and I don't think scruffing is either. I would think either of those methods could cause problems in dogs--maybe not all dogs but most dogs.