how you disipline?!?!

I'm another dog owner whose dogs have always been perfectly housetrained and obedience trained and I have never, ever, spanked a one of them, with my hand or a newspaper. 

Also, I'm a dog owner whose dogs have always been confident and friendly, and  trustworthy around everyone they've met.  They have never once cowered or run from me, have never showed me their teeth. 

I think there is a direct relationship between these two paragraphs.  Think it over.  Using a rolled up newspaper to discipline a dog is a very old-fashioned idea--that was a popular method back in the 50's and 60's.  Join us here in the 2006 methods of training a dog. 

Jumping into the fray…


  I would like to start with that I grew up on a farm, we had lots and lots of animals! My first experience in teaching anything was a horse, my trainer taught me to ‘speak horse.#%92 In other words daddy wouldn#%92t allow me to have my own to train until I spent a lot of time watching the horses, and the trainers and learned how to ‘speak horse.#%92


  Years later when I got my first very own puppy I used this same method in training him. I ‘spoke dog.#%92


  How this works is you learn what body lingo dogs use in order to discipline each other, you use their ling for play time and everything else. My first dog was a Siberian husky, a VERY large one I might add. He was the most well behaved dog on our farm! The reason? I worked with him from day one of getting him; I got him for my 10th birthday FYI, trained my first horse when I was 8.


  It has never occurred to me to smack an animal for any reason! I just speak their language and eventually they get it!


  The way I have always disciplined my dogs is I grab them by their ruff, the back of their necks, give a good quick shake then drop them, I also ignore them for a good few minutes afterwards. This is how their doggy mama disciplines them so why not their human mama? I add in there a good firm ‘NO#%92 when I do this. I have done this when I catch them peeing on the floor too. The way I have taught all of my dogs to go outside is I try to catch them in the act, dish out the punishment then take them outside, when they go outside I am right there ready with a good junk food treat! I make a fool out of myself giving them TONS of praise and they get some junk food in the process! Eventually they figure out Hey! Pee in the house mama grabs my ruff, and scolds! Pee outside mama looks silly and loves me loves me loves me! PLUS I get some junk food! Hmmmm think I will pee outside ALL the time!


  I couldn#%92t imagine HITTING any animal!

I will say this once more.  I have had MANY litters through my doors, some my own, some fosters, ranging from purebed cockers, to shepherds to mutts.  I have NEVER seen a momma dog scruff a pup to discipline.  Not once in all the years of litters.  Momma might do a gentle nose nudge or "the look", but NEVER have I seen scruffing. And screaming NO does not tell a dog what you want it to do.
 
I'm sorry to sound unkind, but you are NOT speaking dog and your dogs don't THINK that you are speaking dog.  They must think that you are some kind of unpredicatable lunatic.  And what you are doing is every bit as bad as hitting.
 
Folks, PLEASE do not try this at home......

Sorry but I didn't say SCREAM I said a FIRM 'NO.' there is a HUGE difference in the tone.


  Interesting that you have never seen dogs do this, like I said I grew up on a farm, we had LOTS of dogs, most were outside dogs, the only one allowed in the house was my Cody.


  Most of our dogs were there for farming reasons; several were there because they just happened along. I saw many a doggy mama and papa take their pup to task this way. In fact if you look it up you will find in the wild this is how wolves teach their young, sorry you don't agree but it has always worked for me.


  I have NEVER hit a dog, and not one of my dogs is hand shy. Cant say I never screamed at a dog because I have, when Heidi took off after a motorcycle I screamed bloody murder! I was scared she was going to get hit, she just doesn't like the pipes on motorcycles, they hurt her ears.


  I grew up kinda rough and tumble, I saw dogs at play that would freak a lot of people out, its natural for dogs to be rough, or at least LOOK like they are being rough.


  You gotta think though that scuff of fur on the back of a puppy's neck is full of extra skin, it doesn't hurt them, it does get their attention though!


  I'll end this with the trainer I got for Sasha, a person my vet recommended who raises and trains nothing but wolf hybrids, said that my method of discipline was PERFECT, these day all I have to do is say, 'Sasha! NO!' and she stops.

The photo i included is Cody who passed away some years ago, with my first daughter Vicki.

It's never alright to hit a dog, no matter what.  When you do that, you've lost control and it just destroys the trust/relationship between you and your dog...even if you just hit them lightly.   
 
You might want to try clicker training.  It uses positive reinforcement and, in my experience, dogs seem to catch on really quick and they love it.  The nice thing about clicker training is that it provides a way for you to let the dog know exactly what they are doing right.  Once they realize which behaviors get them a click, they tend to repeat it all the time.  Both of our dogs have done extremely well with clicker training and I know a bunch of other people who also use it and love it. 

A much eaiser way to handle the peeing on the carpet while your gone would be to crate train, if your pup is doing this while your there, you have not picked up on your pups signals of when he needs to go. If you keep up with the newspaper it's going to just take you longer to potty train, your pup will still go on your carpet but it will be somewhere that you don't see it because your right they are smart.

I use non-physical correction - verbal correction, and I also have a throw chain which is dropped by the dogs' feet (I don't use that very often though, usually all it takes is my voice).

Shippo is 7 months old now, and I've never spanked him. Not even for accidents, which haven't happened a lot anyway, because I PREVENT him from having them as much as possible. When he DID have one, I was kicking MYSELF because I should have noticed he needed out.

Spanking is unnecessary. Eevee was always spanked VERY harshly by my dad when I was younger, and she's now fearful. She flinches sometimes still when I go to pet her.

My apologies, but whether screamed or spoken firmly the word NO has absolutely no meaning to a dog and doesn't tell him what you WANT him to do.
 
Case in point...this morning DH and I were headed out to vote.  Tyler wanted to go with us and was dancing all around the door.  "Get back" and then "sit" told him exactly what I wanted him to do.
 
*Maybe* scruffing is how wolves discipline, although I've never seen that either in all the documentaries I've watched on wolves.  But, the fact remains that my dogs are NOT wolves and while they retain some of the behavior of their ancestors, such as circling before they lay down, they do not retain ALL of them  And, in my experience scruffing as punishment doesn't happen.
 
I do not believe in punishing my dogs. I'd far rather that they do the right thing because they have been TAUGHT that it is the right thing and because they want to please me, not because they FEAR me.  A puppy peeing on the carpet is NOT the pups fault...it's the owners fault for not watching the pup closely enough.  So if anyone deserves scruffing, firm words and a good shake, it's the owner, not the pup.
 
And the trainer I know who raises and trains german shepherds thinks that MY way is perfect.

dogs don't understand english. Why would anyone think a dog somehow knows what the word "no" means? did you spend any time carefully teaching the dog what "no" means? of course not.  Scruffing is I think a myth. Dogs generally "discipline" older puppies by roaring and air-snapping, and the occasional tooth-whack to the face. I'm not a dog and feel no need to try to act like one.

I don't "discipline" my dogs. Most "bad" dog behavior is perfectly normal dog behavior, and is the fault of the owner for not teaching the dog how to live by human rules. Communicate and motivate. Control the environment so the untrained dog can succeed and develop good habits. No need to be violent with your dog.

Eh....personally I don't see anything wrong with occasional spanking of children...I gew up being spanked, only for something extremely bad and not very often, and I certainly grew up fine. I'm not an angry or abusive person, and I don't abuse my animals.  I know quite a few other people whose parents engaged in physical discipline (NOT abuse) and they are perfectly well-adjusted human beings.

I think people are incredibly oversensitive nowadays...if you spank your kid, you are not going to turn them into a murderer or rapist or wife-beater. Most people who are rabidly against physical discipline have has close calls or experience with physical abuse, whether themselves or with acquaitances/animals, therefore making them biased.

Anyway, my point being, I don't see anything wrong with infrequently giving a dog a light scruff or something like that (not hitting) because some dogs simply do not give a flying, well, you know, if they are just going to not get a treat or a click or what  have you, if they do something wrong.....of course, anything beyond that I would begin to question, but I really don't think *light* physical discipline is going to emotionally scar a *mentally healthy* dog (ie I wouldnt use it on as rescue dog who had issues, etc).

A couple of things. . .

At least if a child gets spanked they can understand that they got spanked for whatever they did wrong.  I don't believe a dog connects the two things, I did something bad so I got spanked.  I think all they think is that the person who spanked must be somehow unstable and therefore not the pack leader.  Therefore, they will see themselves as needing to be in that position since nobody else is.  Therefore, causing even further problems.

I have a dog that doesn't give a care about treats or lots of "rewards" that other dogs would go crazy for.  I still have never put my hands on her. 

And, I don't believe that they understand that they only got spanked "lightly".  All they know is they were hit by an unstable person.  That actually makes you quite weak in their eyes.
 
You just cannot compare spanking a child to spanking a dog. 

I will admit that I've 'spanked' Maggie a few times, especially after an unwarranted lunge after another dog, HOWEVER that was in the heat of the moment and I regret ever doing such a thing - all she can connect it to is me looking/sounding mad and catching her - she'll look very apologetic, but it doesn't decrease the frequency of lunges and may in fact add to the stress that causes them s it obviously doesn't work for her. 
 
I'm working on my reaction to her aggressive outbursts, lots more concerning than housebreaking imo, and none of the things I'm working on involve hitting my dog; a long down stay or relaxation protocol, yes, hitting NO!

I'm sorry, but I think dogs DO understand a lot more of what we're saying than we give them credit for. Max has never been hit (even lightly) or yelled at, yet he managed to figure out what "no" means.  When he has something he shouldn't have in his mouth, all I have to say - in a perfectly normal tone of voice - is "No Max, you shouldn't have that" and he looks at me, drops it, and usually rolls over on his back for a belly rub. I hate to imagine what would be going through his fuzzy little head of anyone ever smacked him with a paper.[&:]  He also got housetrained very quickly (using the doggy door) - again, without being hit or yelled at.

Joyce

Lori - I'm with you!!!!!
 
and once AGAIN...THANK GOD FOR GLENDA!!!!!!!!!!!

"No" is a hard sharp note--such notes have been found to effectively stop animal monement.  When I tell Sally "No" in a firm voice it at least gets he attention off what she's doing--then I can say "leave it' or "come" or whatever.
 
Dogs don't understand the meaning of the words "Go HOME" either, but when said in a deep, loud, threatening voice, both my mother and I have sent many a loose dog packing.