My husband is a REALLY BIG turd.

Jessica, in defense of your husband, which almost no one else seems to be doing, the stuff that needs to be done is a woman's work.  Now listen to your husband and get off your butt and get it done.  []

keedokes - Hope you are on your trip and having fun and relaxing.
 
As for lists. I make lists of stuff for myself to do all the time. Sometimes hubby also makes a list of stuff for me to do. We have different priorities on what needs to be done and when. So I just tell him that I have already have a list of stuff to do and if he thinks anything on his list is that important maybe he should start doing it himself right away.

ORIGINAL: cakana

My DH is the same way. If I say something like "tomorrow when I'm at work would you mind pruning the roses?", he'll almost always say "write it down or I'll forget". I think it's all in the way it's handled. If I said "I've left a list of things for you to do", he be ticked and I wouldn't blame him.

*nods* Yes, that's exactly it. I certainly wouldn't *dream* of just handing my DH a list and telling him "hop to it babe". No, if I need him to do something, he wants me to ask him (he gets frustrated if I won't). If I need more than one thing, he wants a list - either verbally or written (we do verbal usually... except he does expect a fully written wish list for holidays) so that he doesn't forget the things that are important. Sometimes he even does other things in the process. My DH is a good man, and I'm grateful to have a relationship with him [].

The term learned helplessness come to mind, and IMO that's what lists encourage. If you love and respect someone there's really nothing in a list but "I think you will fail to meet goals, unless I give you this". I find lists disrespectful as well...unless they are for shopping and specific things are needed. I also agree that were the listers given a list and told "this is what you need to to do today, thanks" they'd go off.

Totally depends on the couple, I think. What makes relationships work is knowing how to communicate with your partner, be it listing or list-free. []

I don't think lists are degrading. I function well with lists. It's not just guys who can't read your mind. If you give me a list of things that need to be done I know what needs to be done. Here's how I look at it - and I"m a little type-A - you and I make a list of things that need to be don and cross them off as they get done. Some you'll cross off, and some I'll cross off.

Paula

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

 however, a list is pretty degrading.

 
Just my [sm=2cents.gif] but I don't see a "to do" list as any more degrading than a shopping list.  Mens and womens brains are wired differently and most men really can't "see" what needs to be done. There can be days old coffee cups sitting around and a weeks worth of newspapers in the middle of the floor and they'll still ask "what is it I should do?"
 
Joyce

i dont think that it is that men dont see what needs to be done, i think our priorities are just different from women's priorities. whether or not a coffee cup is clean only become an issue when there are not any more clean ones.

i think a self made reminder list of what to get at the market and a list of chores doled out by your SO are very different. i have to deal with enough task makers at work. i dont want to deal with that at home.

ok my stance on the list thing is "i dont dish it out if i cant take it" .. my husband has given me lists and i have given him lists. not because we think the other is too incompetent to do certain chores, but because we are very well aware of the fact that we are busy and FORGET.
now if you write a list that says "Scrape your plate, rinse your drinking glass, pick up kids toys, wipe up any spills - and NOT with my good towels!" then you're going over the top... or you're SO is a complete numb skull if they cant do those things on their own and use their own good judgment. the thing about the towels is excusable if it only happens once or twice.... but all the time? maybe he doesnt like the colour lol

personally i keep a cleanish house. meaning i get to it when i get to it. but some things are more important than others... wiping off the stove after i cook dinner is important because i dont want bugs living in my stove. i met an exterminator who caught and killed a giant rat living in a woman's stove, just under the range.... EW!! but my kid dropping cheerios randomly get vacuumed or swept up eventually, maybe not right away, but before the day is over my floor is cheerio free. either i get it or the dog does. either way it happens but it isnt something that would make me flip my lid if it didnt happen right away.... my MIL sees it differently, but she is a mad cleaner....
i dont wash windows or dust all that often because i really dont care. when i can write my name on the tv.... i dust... when i cant tell if its raining outside or if my windows are just dirty... i clean'em...
my husband is a little more over the top than i am, but thats because his mom is a mad cleaner.... if something bothers him sooooo much.. he does it himself, or he'll gauge my mood and decide if he should say something or keep his mouth shut. he is smart enough to be able to tell if my day has been crappy or if i've just been shirking because i dont care. if its because i dont care then he says something. he has a right to. he goes out and works his butt off all day long, keeps the cars running, fixes things when they break, mows the lawn, or patches the roof, pretty much does all the handy man stuff that we would otherwise have to pay someone to do because it wouldnt get done if we both worked.
its fair compensation that i do his laundry and clean up after him after dinner as well as look after kids and pets.
i dont ask him to help with animals because they are mine. i wanted them. but when i'm sick he helps without being asked.
we have both talked to people that think he's a chauvinistic pig but his reply is "I'd switch jobs with her in a heart beat!" .... but i aint gonna let him! i've worked real jobs, i know what thats like. i prefer where i am right now.

i dont think that it is that men dont see what needs to be done, i think our priorities are just different from women's priorities.

 
 
 
I agree that women#%92s and men#%92s priorities when it comes to chores and preparing for a trip are different.
 
I actually can see where your hubby “feels” he has earned the “right” to sit in front of  the computer in his skivvies and relax for a bit. In his mind he figures he worked 11 hours that day, then he came home and worked in the yard to help get things done that needed to be done (forget the fact that he left the job ½ done.. he can#%92t even see that…).
 
 Now, I am absolutely not trying to defend him.. he should be doing more to prepare for this trip.. but see, he ALSO sees you going shopping and doesn#%92t get the fact that you actually NEED To have these before you guys go… many men never can equate a woman out shopping with then NEEDING the item.  There mind doesn't get that concept.     
 
He also doesn#%92t “get” the fact that you have been working your a$$ off all day, because he wasn#%92t around to witness it. He doesn#%92t look around and notice all the stuff you have been doing, nor does he wonder later about “HOW” it all got done. Men#%92s minds don#%92t think that way and quite frankly neither do some women#%92s. 
 
Before DH and I go on a trip (about 1-2 weeks before), we sit down together and make a list over what all needs to be done before we go. This not only includes what things need to get done around the house and what needs to be packed, but what items (such as your shoes) need to be purchased before the trip.   Then we divide up the list according to what each of our strengths are (ie- he cleans more, I do most the shopping which he hates to do), but that way both parties feel that they have a responsibility, they can see what the other has to accomplish and you aren#%92t handing out a list, you are creating one together for a successful and low stress trip.  This works BRILLIANTLY and we already have a list we have created for our camping trip in 2 weeks. It just seems to make things go so much more smoothly and without arguments and as much frsutration.  Maybe you guys can make a list now for your trip to Southern California![] 
 
Hope you are enjoying your trip! []

" My husband is a REALLY BIG turd."

So is mine...I have tons of sympathy!

i dont think that it is that men dont see what needs to be done, i think our priorities are just different from women's priorities.

well yeah of course. these are things that should be talked about and dealt with before vows are exchanged. if it bugs you a little bit now, its gonna bug you a lot later. so its a good idea to set priorities and expectations early on.... like my husband did with the toilet paper speech.... there were other similar speeches from both of us, but that one was the first and stood out the most lol
he and i both agree that work doesnt stop just because you come home. but when someone is there 24/7 it makes it a little easier for the bread winner so he or she can relieve you and take over when its needed.

both husband and wife work, its different work and takes different tactics. at a man's job he gets a fifteen minute break and lunch. after that if he stops to smoke a ciggie or drink a coke he gets yelled at. but at home unless your kid is covered in puke or something is burning... you can sit down for several ten minute intervals. you can sit down while you fold laundry, or while dinner is cooking as long as it doesnt require constant stirring...

whether or not a coffee cup is clean only become an issue when there are not any more clean ones.

*SNORT* that is not just a guy thing. I'm a girl, XX and I do that kind of stuff all the time. Example: pretty much every dish I own is currently in the sink, and I'm down to a couple of pairs of drawers - not even the good stuff. I do dishes when I run out of dishes, and I do laundry when I run out of drawers (not socks; been known to go out and buy new socks).

So for someone like me a list is indispensible.
Paula

SNORT* that is not just a guy thing. I'm a girl, XX and I do that kind of stuff all the time. Example: pretty much every dish I own is currently in the sink, and I'm down to a couple of pairs of drawers - not even the good stuff. I do dishes when I run out of dishes, and I do laundry when I run out of drawers (not socks; been known to go out and buy new socks).

 
Paula, I swear, the more I get to know things about you, the more I like you.. you crack me up![sm=biggrin.gif] 

Bradley, agreed once again.
 
I am weird I guess...but that's okay [].
DH works, and does the vacuuming and dishes and I do the yardwork and cook and watch the kiddos. We do what we're best at...and it works here.
 
I am more of a man mentally than a woman and I really struggle to understand a lot of the issues that women have with relationships because of that...I admit to that freely. But having said that...I don't think I want to change that lol!
 
Like Popeye said "Iyam-whudd-iyam"...
 

I am more of a man mentally than a woman and I really struggle to understand a lot of the issues that women have with relationships because of that...I admit to that freely. But having said that...I don't think I want to change that lol!

I know what you mean.  My DH tells everyone we have reversed roles.  I have a career (fixing computers and printers) and work all day; he wants to be an elementary teacher or a stay at home dad.  I have several sets of tools, power tools, hardware, etc.; he can screw in a new lightbulb and that's about it.  He can't think through any problem or task he hasn't seen before.  He'll talk on the phone for hours to his mom or sister.  My cell phone is rarely charged, let alone turned on.  He is far more emotional and sensitive; he cried during Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings movies.  The only stereotype I do fall into is the cleaning/chores thing, but where I live we call it Dutch Lightning (we're all Dutch) - you sit around waiting for a mess to clean up.  My friend even told this to my new landlord when they called her as a reference, I laughed so hard when she told me.  When we went to sign the lease, they were like "So, I hear you are very clean and tidy..."  Mmmmmm yes.  Well for me it's more a matter of I find it hard to relax or even sit down when there is still stuff hanging over my head to get done.  I get home from work and do the chores, run the errands, and tend to all the animals so that when I finally sit down to eat dinner and watch a TV show or read, I know I don't have to get up again.  It's Friday night and instead of "going out", I'm doing 4 loads of laundry at my parents' house so I don't have to put it off until Sunday (and I'm out of panties!).