My husband is a REALLY BIG turd.

I would find a list degrading too. I would get mad if my dh ever gave me a list of things to do.
When my kids were small, I would pack for me and the kids  and he would pack for himself. He always offered to do something else, like food shopping or something. I was a sahm too, so I did the majority of the stuff around the house. If I wanted help, I just asked him, never had to nag. He did the mowing and if for some reason it didn't get done 1 weekend, oh well, just more work for him some night after work or the next week-end. Really didn't affect me or anyone else but him.
I'm pretty laid back, so is dh. If we end up leaving an hour late, no big deal, if we HAVE to leave at a certain time, I'd wake him up in the morning an hour early to help get ready.
I have to admit my dh doesn't have a lot of things he has to do around the house, I can do most everything myself during the week, I do leave the lawn up to him, and when he gets home from work we  relax together and play with the kids. I figure he has his job during the day, I have mine running the house, at night we are off. Any big jobs like opening the pool I just say, let's open the pool this week-end.
 Sometimes going away with the kids when they were small seemed like such a hassle, until you get to where you are going and get a minute to enjoy it.
I hope you get to have a good time on your trip, put your feet up and let dh take care of the kids, it's good for all of you.

Gotta love men...
Don't just love the "I worked all day".  Well dear that's nice but you only work worst cased 7-7 and then you come home and veg out.  Oh and you get the weekends off...how nice.
Hmm lets see I work everyday more then 12 hours cleaning, laundry chores and helping kids, and making meals.
Oh and I get no sick days or vacation....but you do.  Oh and who is up late with the kids when they are sick or have projects...hmmm me and you are um sleeping.
Must be nice to be a man![:@][8D]

Men are weird.....just tell them what they need to do, just like children.....then you will get it done. If you sit there and wait for them to get a clue.....well, all I can say is ....good luck[8D]

[sm=haha.gif]

Men are weird.....just tell them what they need to do, just like children.....then you will get it done. If you sit there and wait for them to get a clue.....well, all I can say is ....good luck

Love it.....

Every time I read the topic post, I chuckle, you can tell how mad you are. I hope you are off having fun today.
One day I got mad at dh for something, I forget what, but when he walked by, I gave him the finger behind his back. He turned around just as I was doing it, we both started cracking up.
 
My dh got up with the kids when they were sick, he was usually the one rinsing off the pukey sheets while I cleaned the kid up. I bottle fed my babies and dh loved to be the one to get up in the night and feed them, he felt like he was bonding with them. I loved it. When our kids were little, dh did a lot with them when he got home from work and on week-ends. I think that's why I never felt any resentment about it, when he was home, he helped.
I worked when ds was a baby, stayed home with the other 2 kids and I gotta say, I think it's alot easier staying home. When I worked, dh and I were doing laundry at night, rushing to get supper on the table, doing the bills and grocery shopping on the week-ends. He would drop the baby off in the morning and I would pick him up at night, really didn't leave either of us anytime to relax and enjoy anything. Staying home, I got everything done early enough that we could relax after supper, only thing was we really had to stretch his paycheck for a few years, so that was stressful.

i am not saying i dont help out around the house, and i think all husbands should help with the chores. however, a list is pretty degrading.

Well, my husband said I can give him a list or tell him what to do.  He admits he just doesn't see these things on his own.  It's not that he's lazy, he's just not a self-starter.  He's not good at seeing the big picture, prioritizing, etc.  Not just chores, everything.  He needs help staying on task and he's the first person to admit it.  What was more degrading for our relationship was him never doing ANYTHING and me waiting for him to notice and do something and then assume that he was lazy, didn't care, and didn't appreciate that I do everything.  We sat down and talked about it, and I learned that he wasn't doing it intentionally and that he'd rather me just ask or leave a list.  When I do most chores on Saturday, he's gotten better at noticing "Oh, I've been playing video games for three hours and Lies has been in the kitchen cleaning the whole time..." so he will wander over and say "what should I do?" so I have him take out the trash.  See, he does a lot less chores, but he lets me make him do the nasty ones. []

You just have to communicate and come to an agreement rather than one person feeling like the other doesn't give a shit and the other person feeling like s/he's being bossed.

On the list thing... my DH freely admits that he doesn't recognize when things *need* to be done. He actually prefers for me to give him a list (verbally, or otherwise) of things that need to be done - and he does them beautifully with no complaining. He tries hard, and he works hard - as long as he knows exactly what is expected of him. Yes, he gets distracted. Yes, he doesn't always do his things as fast as I'd like him to, and sometimes I have to take back some of his list items. But he tries.

I think trip time is stressful for everyone. I know when I'm trying to get us all (DH, myself, and five dogs) loaded and out the door to go somewhere it's stressful and we're usually both annoyed by the time we're loaded. I think it's the nature of the beast. I have to remind myself to consider my expectations, and check as to whether DH has been informed of said expectations. Both of us are happier that way.

Oh yes, the middle finger. DH's Mom taught me that one. [sm=biggrin.gif] That usually sends both of us into gales of laughter, nicely diffusing a previously tense situation.

Bradley I think you are 100% right.
 
The term learned helplessness come to mind, and IMO that's what lists encourage. If you love and respect someone there's really nothing in a list but "I think you will fail to meet goals, unless I give you this". I find lists disrespectful as well...unless they are for shopping and specific things are needed. I also agree that were the listers given a list and told "this is what you need to to do today, thanks" they'd go off.
 
Goose and Gander....

I happen to believe there is a middle ground between nagging and having to write a list.
 
That's what we practice in my home.
 
If you want to know a secret...lol...in fact I think men that like lists, like them because they're finite...if they know something needs to be done, but you haven't noticed yet, and it's not on the list...well there's an easy out.

in fact I think men that like lists, like them because they're finite.

My husband would be the first to agree with you on this. If it's not written down, "How am I suppose to know has to be done if it's not on the list."  My husband is the ultimate list maker.....

The term learned helplessness come to mind, and IMO that's what lists encourage. If you love and respect someone there's really nothing in a list but "I think you will fail to meet goals, unless I give you this". I find lists disrespectful as well...unless they are for shopping and specific things are needed. I also agree that were the listers given a list and told "this is what you need to to do today, thanks" they'd go off.

Goose and Gander....

I would go off if someone gave me a list, but I'm different.  I'm a self-starter and I don't need lists.  DH - he has a mild learning disability combined with taking serious anti-seizure meds....he's totally absent-minded, has almost zero ability to focus, he cannot multi-task.  We tried the whole divide-up-chores-and-do-them-without-being-asked and it lasted about a day.  So then I tried just doing everything myself, waiting for him to notice, but he never noticed and I began to resent my husband only a few months into marriage.  So, he told me just to ask him what to do.  I would never say "Well, I've done ALL this so the least you can do is take out the trash!"  No, I don't use that tone, I just say "I'm going to clean up our closet, will you take out the trash?"  Next time I go in the kitchen, the trash is gone, he's back at the computer playing his game, and everyone is happy.  Also, he happens to be very handy at hardwork, not that I don't enjoy working outside, but he has several years of landscaping experience so he always says "when we have a house, I will be responsible for outside chores."  He's better with those chores because he's conditioned to recognize them.  He will think nothing of a half-eaten plate of leftovers rotting on his desk or black scum growing in the shower, but if he sees someone's bush that was not trimmed straight or a yard that needs to be edged, he'll notice.  Also, I concede that I'm a neat freak and as such, I cannot blame him for not being as OCD about cleanliness and I cannot expect him to notice or say he doesn't love or respect me if he doesn't.  He is cleaner now than when we lived by ourselves, so I'll give him credit for trying.

Well that sucks!  I really understand your frustration.  I go to those places too sometimes.  I am sure it hard to do all those things and then feel like he doesn't understand how hard it is and how much work it takes, especially being so pregnant! 
 
When I get pissed about this same type of thing, here's what I tend to do to put things in perspective for myself.
 
DH and I both work.  He works really bloody hard all day since he is a self-employed contractor and a one-man band at that.  He beats himself to death every day, and sometimes a lot of that is on OUR house - so we basically get $10K remodels done for just materials.  I have a desk job that is pretty non-stressful. 
 
So when I get "on it" about how DH never picks up his clothes...or does laundry....or puts a dish in the sink, let alone the dishwasher...or helps clean the house...or whatever...I see it as we contribute differently to household.  We make almost the same money so we contribute equally financially, but there are things I can't do that he can and he takes those things on.  One really great thing about him is that if he knows something needs to get fixed, I never have to say anything to him about it.  He's even apologized to me for not getting the garage cleaned out - even though I never asked him about it or even said anything about it - because he gets on himself about stuff like that.  He can't ever look at a room in our house without seeing some little repair or smudge on the wall that needs to be fixed - I told him, that must be a hell of a tortured way to live.  He doesn't allow himself to soak in acknowledgement for his accomplishments.
 
Anyway, sometimes I do get aggravated because he doesn't acknowledge the things I do very often...and I make it a huge point to affirm him for all the work he does around the house, and offer to give him some creature comforts when he's had a rough day.  He is not a terribly "giving" person in the sense of comfort and reassurance, and certain parts of our relationship seem to be "all about him" and I get triggered by that.  However I remind myself that who I am is someone peaceful, loving, and freely giving - which means that I have an opportunity to lose my attachment to those things.  Like, I can just BE a certain way and I don't need to have acknowledgement from him in order to validate that I matter, or that what I do is enough.  It's hard to explain, but it's giving my power to someone else to tell me that I'm OK in the world, rather than resting in that knowledge for myself.  People can often perceive when a string is attached to something and when there is an unspoken obligation to affirm or acknowledge something it can feel inherently "icky" to the person from whom affirmation/acknowledgement is expected.  And in the sense of wanting help with something...it can be the same way.  My parents are like this...always keeping "score" with the things they do for me, so nothing is freely given, and then they act like I'm a selfish and ungrateful daughter because I don't play the reciprocation game with them. 
 
Anyway, I just wanted to say I really understand how you are so frustrated and especially if DH uses harsh words and tones.  Mine does that too and it makes it really hard to be around that and feel like you can freely keep giving when you're being treated poorly.  My only encouragement is to communicate! 

ORIGINAL: Liesje

 I've only clogged mine once and it was b/c the actual turd clogged it! []

 
Do you have pictures?  []

My hubby is like that with trips (and most other stuff). I've learned to TELL him if I want something done. He is not a mind reader, he isn't even a much of a list reader. It's irritating, but I've learned to get over it. I have no idea if this obliviousness to household chores is unintentional or a strategy to get us to do everything. I just know it exists in 90% of all men.

The one thing that irritated me the most was that after I worked all day, packed the kids, packed the food, packed the camping supplies and then he asks "Did you pack my clothes?" I lost it. I let him know that he's a grown-up and can take care of packing his own clothes. Especially since I took the time to pick them off the floor, wash, dry, fold and put them away. I don't know where that came from. I have never packed his clothes in 13 years of marriage - or asked him to pack mine. Why he thought I'd do it now is a mystery.

On the list thing... my DH freely admits that he doesn't recognize when things *need* to be done. He actually prefers for me to give him a list (verbally, or otherwise) of things that need to be done - and he does them beautifully with no complaining.

 
My DH is the same way.  If I say something like "tomorrow when I'm at work would you mind pruning the roses?", he'll almost always say "write it down or I'll forget".  I think it's all in the way it's handled.  If I said "I've left a list of things for you to do", he be ticked and I wouldn't blame him.  I agree though that vacations can be pretty stressful in terms of prep and all.  Usually (hopefully) it all settles down once you reach your destination and you can just relax and enjoy []