the GOOD part of working with women...

I've only ever worked in a male dominated industry (Financial), so have no real experience working with lots of women.  Most of the women I have worked with over the years have been extremely intelligent and professional!  (imagine that!).  This is not to say that I haven't witnessed a fair share of female induced drama, but I have no problem staying out of it.  I have one other woman on my team and she and I are very similar in that we're "one of the guys".  We work closely with them, go to lunch with them, drinks after work, etc.  And like Gina, I'm all about cursing, drinking, dirty jokes and non-squealing laughter!  I think I have the *perfect* situation - all men + 1 awesome female. 

ORIGINAL: probe1957
I have thought about it and have decided to remain a lesbian.  []

 
[sm=rotfl.gif]

You guys are all just too funny!
 
For me, the impression I have about some females in the workplace is they tend to get an attitude of "so-and-so MUST BE DESTROYED."   What is up with that?  I can understand feeling threatened by someone, but to feel so insecure with yourself that you have to drive people out?  And why do they get away with this behavior?  Here is my ugly story - but it's a really good one:
 
When I was 26 I got promoted into a dream high-profile job downtown (at a former employer).  I worked under the #2 guy in our district.  This woman worked under the #1 guy.  Anyway, she'd driven out something like 5 other women from that office in the past year, and before I went downtown some people in the suburban office where I worked tried to warn me about her behavior.  So I knew her reputation, but had no idea exactly how far she would stoop to "destroy" me.  She is one of those women who is utterly and viscerally threatened by any other competent, attractive female in her vicinity.  She did things like sabotage programs I was running.  One night before a seminar I was organizing for 50 attendees, she canceled my meeting rooms, audio visual, and catering arrangements.  When I came in the next morning and saw what happened and tried to figure it out, she came swooping down like a heroine and "fixed" everything, making me look like a disorganized, blithering idiot.  After I pressed the vendors for details on who canceled stuff and found out it was her, I went to my boss.  But he never confronted HER boss about her behavior, because she basically wiped her boss's ass and he didn't want to screw that up for himself.  I have countless other examples of things she did.  I finally got wise and had to stipulate in vendor agreements that I was the only person allowed to make changes to contracts, but it was an incredible amount of stress to be under and I wound up getting an ulcer and leaving that job to go back to the suburbs. (Incidentally, the district got consolidated shortly after that and I would have been out of a job anyway, so it all worked out). 
 
I was absolutely not prepared for the level to which she would sink in order to "destroy" another woman.  And she never behaved like this toward men.  Oh and to boot, she was a diabetic, so whenever someone WOULD confront her about her behavior, she'd suddenly come down with some kind of diabetes-related attack and her boss would feel too sorry for her to say anything.  My own boss actually said to me once, "Look Gina, she's sick and she can't ever have children, I mean, this job is all she has!"  (Like that's worth the six other people she's chewed up and spit out over the years!)
 
Her reputation eventually wound up costing her boss a big promotion because folks higher up than her refused to work with her.  But even so, 7 years after my experience with her, she's still there. 

ORIGINAL: badrap
 but i actually WOULD appreciate some of the men around here giving some perspective about what they feel working around other men...

 
I actually have what I feel is a QUALIFIED perspective to offer here.
 
A few years back, I was the COO of a large tire and appliance center.  We had 11 locations and 104 employees.  5 of these employees were women.  Although I did not directly manage all 104 employees, as that would be an impossible task, I will say, I spent far more time dealing with issues involving the 5 women than I did the 99 men.  Men, IMO, are FAR easier to work with and are certainly easier to manage.
 
Two of the women under my employ did not like each other.  From time to time this interfered with their ability to do their jobs.  When this happened, it was sometimes necessary for me to get involved.  I have little tolerance and no patience for situations where personal issues interfere with work so I wouldn't hesitate to get involved when it was necessary.  These two women had worked together for twenty years.  Far longer than I had been with the company.
 
These women could not even tell me why they didn't like each other.  They had forgotten!!!  One said to me, "I don't know why, I just don't like the bitch."  I don't think you would ever hear anything like that from a man.  You see, if two men have a disagreement, one of them might take a swing at the other in the morning then, that night, you will find them at a bar getting drunk together.  Women carry a grudge to the grave.
 
I have some theories about that but don't have the time to elaborate on them now and don't know if you ladies have any interest anyway.

ORIGINAL: probe1957

You see, if two men have a disagreement, one of them might take a swing at the other in the morning then, that night, you will find them at a bar getting drunk together.  Women carry a grudge to the grave.

I have some theories about that but don't have the time to elaborate on them now and don't know if you ladies have any interest anyway.

 
I personally would love to hear your theories.
 
I have to say I think it has to do with a brain chemistry thing.  Look at dog behavior, for example.  You  have two male dogs and they are vying for pack dominance.  They will settle it with ONE fight and it will remain settled FOREVER.  You have two alpha bitches and they will never, ever, EVER stop fighting and testing eachother for that top spot. 
 
Hey, there is a reason the word BITCH is used for female dogs and female humans alike, as far as I am concerned.

I've only ever worked in a male dominated industry (Financial), so have no real experience working with lots of women. Most of the women I have worked with over the years have been extremely intelligent and professional! (imagine that!)

Christine, like Ron's work situation, I think that statement is primarily because of the industry you work in.  I am also sad right now to hear you talk about your "1 awesome co-worker". [&o] I had 1 woman that I adored working with but she left to have a family. She is still pretty much my one and only female friend. She had the best attitude, stayed out of the drama like I do and was only thing that kept me sane in my office during some of the horrendous ordeals we all would go through when our female boss would have a "freak out" day.  

My own boss actually said to me once, "Look Gina, she's sick and she can't ever have children, I mean, this job is all she has!"

 
Gina that entire story of yours is appalling!  But that above statement totally ticks me off.... I am sorry but to be frank, if my boss ever said that to me I would think he was ...hmmm...how should I say this nicer than I want to....  lets just say "boinking" her. []    
More than 1/2 of the female managers I have worked under also have the same "search and destroy" attitude...and I never understood that.

These women could not even tell me why they didn't like each other.  They had forgotten!!!  One said to me, "I don't know why, I just don't like the bitch."  I don't think you would ever hear anything like that from a man.

This is exactly what I was trying to say the other day to you. Women often don't really know "why" they don't like other women ...and will make up reasons why they don't like them and actually START BELIEVING those reasons exist!  I am shocked sometimes to hear women say something about another woman's personality that is completely untrue and in most cases the exact opposite of who they are.  It is like when 2 people watch an event unfold and then both people describe what they saw and the events are completely different.

Thank you for sharing your perspective on this and I like Gina,  for one would like to hear your theories should you have the time and inclination.  

I worked in the financial services industry too.  Catty women there too, but generally speaking too busy to be as bitchy as their personalities would normally allow!
 
There's no way my boss was boinking her, but I sometimes wonder if she wasn't blowing her own boss, for all the crap of hers he put up with and covered up. 
 
With regard to your last paragraph, jjsmom, I seriously think that women tend not to be straight with THEMSELVES about what confronts them about other women they don't like.  I mean how many raving bitches do you know that would actually admit that they don't like another woman because she's (insert adjective here) younger, smarter, able to have children, funnier, than she is?  More than likely they make up some bogus reason or better yet, some LIE about the other woman so that they don't have to look at what triggers them about their own shortcomings.

There's no way my boss was boinking her, but I sometimes wonder if she wasn't blowing her own boss, for all the crap of hers he put up with and covered up.

Ahhh…. An “under the desk” type job then huh?? I was offered one of those once[8|]

I mean how many raving bitches do you know that would actually admit that they don't like another woman because she's (insert adjective here) younger, smarter, able to have children, funnier, than she is?  More than likely they make up some bogus reason or better yet, some LIE about the other woman so that they don't have to look at what triggers them about their own shortcomings.

Honestly this is exactly it… they feel that another woman#%92s “success” lets call them (beauty, brains, talent, money, family…etc…) somehow reflect poorly on them.

  The thing I have noticed most often about befriending a woman who appears to have far more going on in certain “departments” than you do is that they TRULY do not have it all together. Sometimes they are plagued with self esteem issues and lots of other problems they deal with everyday.  On the outside they seem absolutely incredible but when you dig deeper into that person and get to know them and become friends you often realize that you personally have a lot more going for you than they do. You start to take that person “off the pedestal” you placed them on and can see that like you they are JUST HUMAN… and often times an incredible friend.[]

ORIGINAL: probe1957
.  Men, IMO, are FAR easier to work with and are certainly easier to manage.

Billy,I think this has everything to do with the high mantainence issues of having to deal with women,both at work and at home.

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06

[  The thing I have noticed most often about befriending a woman who appears to have far more going on in certain "departments” than you do is that they TRULY do not have it all together. Sometimes they are plagued with self esteem issues and lots of other problems they deal with everyday.  On the outside they seem absolutely incredible but when you dig deeper into that person and get to know them and become friends you often realize that you personally have a lot more going for you than they do. You start to take that person "off the pedestal” you placed them on and can see that like you they are JUST HUMAN… and often times an incredible friend.[]

I walked into an office once for a job interview and wound up later getting the job.  I found out a few months later that one girl in the office - who had only seen and NEVER spoken to me on the day of my interview - went around telling everyone in the office that I "looked like a real bitch".  I mean WTF????

This was a fat, ugly girl - about the same age as me, which was 20 at the time.  And when I was 20, I was hot.  I walked into an office dressed professionally with a big smile on my face, and for that I get gossipped about as a bitch.

Nice, huh?  And to your point, I most certainly do NOT have it all together and have all the normal self esteem and acceptance issues that most women have, if not moreso. 
 
Edited to add:  You know, it occurs to me that I've had a similar problem with women on another dog forum I used to belong to.  That is why I will never share certain parts of my personal life over the internet again...they piece little bits and pieces together and think they know everything about someone's real life, enough to make some harsh judgements.  I occasionally go back to that board to browse and people STILL talk about me behind my back, and some of the stuff they say are just plain made-up.  Get a life people. 

Honestly this is exactly it… they feel that another woman#%92s “success” lets call them (beauty, brains, talent, money, family…etc…) somehow reflect poorly on them.

 
Yep, totally.  Despite the fact that Wall Street is mostly men, as I said - I have encountered plenty of alpha bitches.  It's pathetic, but I find that if I stroke their delicate ego's - just a bit (not too much!) I can redirect their hatred elsewhere.  haha!  It's like they *want* to hate me, but I don't let them.  I am nothing but nice and utterly professional, so that if an AB does trash talk me, she reveals herself instantly to be jealous, petty and insecure.  It's politics and I participate to the extent in which I have to in order to avoid drama.  In defense of the AB in the workplace...  We (they) do have to fight tooth and nail to get noticed, get promoted, get respect (at least in my industry).  I understand being territorial and protective of what she has worked so hard for (her position).  That's why when I deal with one, I make it clear that I respect her, which seems to be all she wants. 

It's pathetic, but I find that if I stroke their delicate ego's - just a bit (not too much!) I can redirect their hatred elsewhere. haha! It's like they *want* to hate me, but I don't let them. I am nothing but nice and utterly professional, so that if an AB does trash talk me, she reveals herself instantly to be jealous, petty and insecure. It's politics and I participate to the extent in which I have to in order to avoid drama.

[]You got it! It is the "kill them with kindness technique” I learned that as a waitress for years since EVERYTHING that the customer isn't happy with is the waitresses fault and gets taken out on you. If you had to wait to be seated, if you don't like where you are sitting, if the food isn't good or you don't have what they want to order…then it is all the waitress fault. I learned so quickly to eat my pride and the worse a customer treated me and the more irrational they were the nicer I was to them…. syrupy sweet at times[]. If you kill them with kindness you can turn things around very quickly. I was such a "pro” at this technique that my managers always would give me the worst customers so that they could walk away happy…  I hated that but I guess it was a compliment.[&o]

I use the same technique in the workplace. I am actually very nice to everyone, but if I sense that a woman is trying to look for reasons to not like me and to cause trouble, then I kill them with kindness and I almost always can turn their attitude about me around.  It is just part of the "workplace survival skills” you have to learn working in a female heavy environment!    

  Billy,I think this has everything to do with the high mantainence issues of having to deal with women,both at work and at home.

Mark, after things you have told me I think your lovely wife is incredibly high maintenance …but I think YOU made her that way loverboy![]

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06
Ahhh…. An "under the desk” type job then huh?? I was offered one of those once[8|]

 
LMAO.  Well, if you weren't so hideously ugly and morbidly obese, you might have been considered for a top of the desk position.  []

LMAO. Well, if you weren't so hideously ugly and morbidly obese, you might have been considered for a top of the desk position.

 
Well if my potential employer was better looking OR hadn#%92t been such a cheap skate and offered me a more “appropriate” salary for this type of job description then I might have taken the “under the desk” job.[]
 
I also think you need to get a good online dictionary before using words like this:[8|]
 morbid obesity  the condition of weighing two or more times the ideal weight
 

ORIGINAL: probe1957

ORIGINAL: jjsmom06
Ahhh…. An "under the desk” type job then huh?? I was offered one of those once[8|]

LMAO.  Well, if you weren't so hideously ugly and morbidly obese, you might have been considered for a top of the desk position.  []

 
i see we waited until PAGE THREE to start with the low blows (no pun intended)...[][]  this is an improvement, i think...
 
billy, your story about the 5 women creating more problems than the 100 men rings so true with me...  at one of my last jobs, there was a group of 2 or 3 women on every shift who were constantly filing complaints with managment and HR, over things that i thought were simply ridiculous.  once i wore a sleevless shirt on a *hot* day (no ac & in a factory) and the "hen house" was offended by something- perhaps my smoking hot bod (hehe yeah right), and filed a complaint, which resulted in a "dress code" that prohibited wearing of sleeveless shirts.  what a complete waste of time and resources!  and that type of thing was CONSTANT.  they would complain if there was diet pepsi but no diet coke at a work sponsored event.  they would complain if maintanence took a little too long to get to their machines because they were putting out a fire somewhere else.  they would start rumors about who was sleeping with whom, most of which were fabricated based on an unashamed frienship.  i was the victim of several of these rumors.
 
it is women like this that cause me to distance myself from my gender.  reading through these stories, i am realizing that perhaps my personality developed as something of a "survival" mechanism.  billy, you said it- those women were annoying.  and you don't get very far in male dominated workforces if you are perceived as a nuisance, which many woman are, and for good reason. 
 
so i would offer that those of us who prefer the company of  men and are labeled as having "male" attitudes have developed this as a manner of self promotion.  "i know i'm female, but i'm not like THAT..."  know what i'm saying?