Should people be allowed to have exotic pets?

ORIGINAL: corvus




While I'm not overly fond of zoos anymore either, I do acknowledge the need for them as educational facilities. The zoo in Sydney has a superb education program, and when people look at breathtaking snow leopards, they learn why those animals are endangered. It was at that snow leopard display with its painting of a skinned snow leopard that I really learnt what it meant to take an animal's fur and make a coat out of it, and I learnt what I could do to discourage this practice. Every school that can make a day trip to that zoo does. I don't think you can do much better than that. They even have an outreach program where they take animals to schools that can't get to a zoo.

Unfortunately, many schools, especially high schools, in America have issued a "No Child Left Behind" policy. This has prevented many schools from sending their children out on field trips that would be beneficial. The local high school used to go to the Aquarium, Living Museum, and Planetarium every year, now they are no longer allowed to do so.

It is sad that we have to have sanctuaries and rescuers, but the fact is that we need them, and without them here today, thousands of animals would be dead, and hundreds would probably be completely extinct.

I don't try so hard anymore to think about what should've happened, I just try my best to make our current situation bareable, because nobody is going back in time to change anything. And that's just that.

Licensing for these animals here have become very strict. Most include that the owner be involved in doing a certain amount of educational interaction with schools and other places for a certain amount of time. They require the person to spend around 2000 hours or more with a licensed rehabilitator or handler, someone who is in this field who has the experience. They are required to meet certain criteria for keeping the animals, and are inspected on a regular basis. If anything is not up to par with the law for containment or anything else, they have a certain amount of time to fix it, or the animal will be seized, much like keeping dogs in some cities.
This is a very complicated process to go through, and it can be difficult to deal with someone telling you that the enclosure you have spent so long on, sometimes years, isn't up to par...but you suck it up, you understand their concern, and you keep up with their wishes, or your animal could be pulled from you and placed in an envrionment it will be stressed in and possibly die from that, or be euthanized.

Everyone will have different views. And I do wish that nobody in the world abused their animals. However, banning these animals from being owned with doubtfully keep them from being owned by someone. You will probably never lift the restriction of owning these animals for educational purposes, to a complete ban on them forever. Zoos will still get rid of the animals they do not want to show off to the public. People will still sell them illegally. People will still own them as glamour pets, and there is where you lose all of the responsible owners, and you are stuck with an even bigger problem, and most likely, the deaths of a lot more people than what it stands at now, which really is not as many as what happens with domesticated animals.
I have too much in me to believe that a total ban on exotics (minus a few common ones) will spark an even bigger problem, as it has with certain dog breeds, and certain other animals in specific cities, counties, towns etc. I would hate to see this happen with these animals, that is even more grim a fate than what people claim is happening now.

Without these people being able to interact with these animals, they may never have formed a bond with them.
 
Again...excuses to basically say something aside from "because I want to"...
 
You are doing the animals no favors not already accomplished, and admirably so by the many wonderful zoo's and their outreach programmes, around the world.
 
Kids do not  need to TOUCH a wild Wolf or Cougar to learn, or be inspired by them. Simply watching them, in NATURAL appearing surroundings...and hearing and sending the message "out there is where they belong, save it"...is what they need. Not, "look and touch this pretty playful friendly bobcat...it's completely safe...and this is my baby...oh yeah...but never approach a wild animal...they are dangerous..oh and preserve their habitats too, even tho this one lives in my house"...lol.

ORIGINAL: k.m.a

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

ORIGINAL: Aery

Dogs run away from home every single day. Many dog bite cases are from strays.
Exotic cat owners don't let mistakes happen. They are educated enough to know the risks involved, and it just doesn't happen. If they are responsible.

I will not speak for those owners who don't know what they are doing. They do not deserve any animals in my opinion, unless it is full of cotton.

Lots of morons own these types of animals, and lots of them do escape and kill. I have hard quite a few cases of it in the last few years, from my area alne, people had a pack of wolves, who escaped and reeked havok for a few weeks until they were shot, or hit by cars from the high way they were running on. Tigers and lions have escaped and done a world of damage. It does happen,, just like dogs. But it is far worse.

It's very unlikely.
Dog bite Statistics:

In 2001, an estimated 68 million dogs were pets in the United States.

In 2001, an estimated 368,245 victims were treated for dog bite related injuries.
Source: [linkhttp://www.dogbitelegalcenter.com/resources/dogbite-statistics.html]http://www.dogbitelegalcenter.com/resources/dogbite-statistics.html[/link]\
Exotic cat injuries:
I could not find any actual statistics for these, as they are not in a large enough numbers to have statistics. Here's some links instead: [linkhttp://tigerlady.blogster.com/excellent_article_statistics.html]http://tigerlady.blogster.com/excellent_article_statistics.html[/link]
About how media twists things.
[linkhttp://www.thefcf.com/legal/legalisoct1805.asp?key=318]http://www.thefcf.com/legal/legalisoct1805.asp?key=318[/link]
And, the FCF (Feline Conservative Federation) lists some common misconceptions about private owners.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar
There is no way that any one is helping them from becoming extinct, wild animals should be kept in the wild. period. it will not help extinction by breeding only to be bought by others, as they will never be wild animals, so why bother.

We need a place for these litters of animals, and some cannot simply be rehabilitated. Habitat is becoming scarce, we have poachers about, and if we do not find places for these animals we will lose the species as we know it.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar
If I had a neighboor who owned a large cat, no matter how friendly it supposidly is, I would be beyond mad, and I would start a big huff untill it was gone. Anything can happen. these animals are in no way like household dogs and cats,, house hold dogs and cats are domesticated, over 1000's upon 1000's of years. And they still act out too, attacking people ect. So who is to say no big cat will attack some one, including its handler, bottle fed or not.

I love animals, I love large cats and exotics and wild animals, but 99% of them need to be kept in the wild.

Once you got over this huff and the cat was gone.. would you care what happened to it after it was gone? I'll tell you what would happen to it: It would most likely be euthanized or stuffed into an already crowded sanctuary. And youre right, some animals do attack. But these attacks are far less common than the most common household pet: the dog. So we should get rid of these animals then? They have been domesticated for a long time and yet they still have more bite injuries recorded than any exotic animal? weird! With dogs and with exotics, attacks are preventable. You need some common sense, enough money, and knowledge about the breed. That is all. A trainer may get attacked by it's Tiger because it s/he may have bent down will in the enclosure. S/he may have walked in at a amorous or playful time of the day. There are so many reasons why an animal will choose to attack. And might I add, exotic cats in particular and domestic cats, do not like confortation.(Sp?) Thats why you hardly ever see lynx, cougars .. bobcats in the wild. They'd rather run than face you.

yes I would feel bad for where it ends up, but thats the owners problem not mine, they chose to have a pet you shouldnt own at all. I didnt, and I wouldnt want it in my neighboorhood, period.
 
You can not say that there is more dog bites then exotic pet cats. dogs out number wild cats probably 1000 to 1 in a household ratio, it would be unfair to try and put them together. Thats like me saying canada has more smokers compared to a country like belize that only has a few hundred thousand residents, as opposed to canada that has about 30million. It isnt fair becuase the numbers dont even come close.
 
yes they would rather run then face you in the wild, that is why they shouldnt be kept, they would be happier if the knew what wild was. Exactly my point about being attacked, then will attack and not even know it, they could be playing but their play is to rough. I know with my dog, I can bend down with out getting bit, and I know I wont get attacked by him when playing. It is unnacceptable to keep them as pets. period.
 
and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.
 
Dont try to convince me otherwise.
 
It is cruel and selfish.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Without these people being able to interact with these animals, they may never have formed a bond with them.
 
Again...excuses to basically say something aside from "because I want to"...
 
You are doing the animals no favors not already accomplished, and admirably so by the many wonderful zoo's and their outreach programmes, around the world.
 
Kids do not  need to TOUCH a wild Wolf or Cougar to learn, or be inspired by them. Simply watching them, in NATURAL appearing surroundings...and hearing and sending the message "out there is where they belong, save it"...is what they need. Not, "look and touch this pretty playful friendly bobcat...it's completely safe...and this is my baby...oh yeah...but never approach a wild animal...they are dangerous..oh and preserve their habitats too, even tho this one lives in my house"...lol.

These children do not learn that. I don't see why your sarcasm was added to such a serious post made by me. To say that I am not helping is one of the most offensive things I have ever had said to me. And I have dealt with a lot, from a lot of people.

I will not be made to feel guilty for rescuing animals when they need it. I do not deserve it, for the hundreds of adults and children I have reached, who do not go to zoos because they can't, who don't know what is it to see an animal in the wild. How in the world is going to a zoo in any way the same as seeing the animal in the wild?
Zookeepers can very often be seen laying and playing with their animals. That is nowhere near to what it is like in the wild. So your statement is quite contradictory. I do what zoos do, and more. I use enrichment that is up close and personal, yet safe, without the bounds of plexiglass and bars. They can see, in person, the actions of an animal as close to wild as possible, without traveling around the world, or turning on the tv.
I'm very confident that what I am doing is helping people and animals, and I see no reason to tell me that I am not helping at all.

and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

This just proves to me that you have little knowledge on captive breeding. There are indeed many animals who are bred in captivity and released into the wild in hopes of reproducing. You have been very misinformed to think otherwise.
Where releasing cannot be done, rescue people step in. Do not condemn them for their choice to help the animals that they know they can.

ORIGINAL: Aery

and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

This just proves to me that you have little knowledge on captive breeding. There are indeed many animals who are bred in captivity and released into the wild in hopes of reproducing. You have been very misinformed to think otherwise.
Where releasing cannot be done, rescue people step in. Do not condemn them for their choice to help the animals that they know they can.

 
yea I know that some are released. But the ones that are sold as pets is just stupid IMO. People who fight to help AND release animals are great. People who BREED for PETS are dumb, and should have their animals taken away. A few years ago I was bored, and looked up exotic animals for sale. I cam across hundreds of sites with them for sale. All you have to do is pay them, and go pick them up, no questions asked. I assume those people are like BYB or the dog world. but even so,  it is that easy to get a tiger or lion or alligator.There should be very strict rules for this.   Do all you may, you wont convince me other wise.

Some animals that have been bred in captivity, and released into the wild:

April 28, 2006 — Four-year-old Xiang Xiang made history on Friday when he wandered into a southwestern Chinese forest, becoming the first artificially raised giant panda to be released into the wild, state press said. Xiang Xiang, which means "auspicious" in Chinese, was born at the Wolong Giant Panda Protection and Research Center in Sichuan province, where he grew up alongside 102 other members of the critically endangered species. After three years of training to ensure he could survive in the wild, Xiang Xiang was released into his natural habitat — the mountainous forests of the Wolong area in Sichuan province — on Friday morning, Xinhua news agency reported.

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]What is the current status of the Mexican gray wolf? [font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]There are only about 200 Mexican wolves in the world. Most are part of a captive breeding program in 40 zoos and wildlife sanctuaries located in the United States and Mexico to prevent extinction of the subspecies. In March 1998, the first 11 Mexican wolves from captive stock were reintroduced into the wild in the Apache National Forest in southeastern Arizona under a program to re-establish the subspecies to a portion of its historic range. Two additional wolves were released later that year. Twenty-one wolves have been released in 1999. Of the 34 wolves released: five have been shot; one disappeared; one was hit by a vehicle; five were returned to captivity; and at least 22 are free-ranging. The status of released Mexican wolves can change unexpectedly. For up-to-date information, visit the [linkhttp://ifw2es.fws.gov/mexicanwolf/FAQ.cfm]Mexican wolf web page[/link],
[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]

(22/34 is an amazing number)


Captive breeding By 1976 a captive breeding programme had been established utilizing 17 red wolves captured in Texas and Louisiana. In 1977 the first pups were born, and by 1985 the captive population numbered 65 individuals held in six zoological facilities. With the species reasonably secure in captivity, the USFWS initiated a reintroduction project in 1987. Since this represented the first ever attempt to restore a carnivore species which had been declared extinct throughout its former range, the programme generated tremendous public interest in the red wolf. Between September 1987 and April 1991 a further 18 zoological facilities committed themselves to maintaining red wolves, and the annual federal budget for captive breeding increased from about $30,000 to $191,000. By January 1991 there were 159 red wolves in captivity; currently there are at least 220.



[font="times new roman, times, serif"]Current Population Status The Siberian tiger population has reached target levels and is essentially stable, while the Sumatran population is expanding to reach target. A few institutions have chosen to switch from the Siberian to the Sumatran subspecies, but not enough to warrant concern over competition for space between these programs. Not represented in the table is the large number of generic tigers currently held in North American zoos (estimated at 190 in July 1992). The spaces occupied by these animals will be utilized for the Sumatran and Indochinese tigers as they become available. The surplus, or non-breeding, population in the Tiger SSP numbers 47 animals. These animals are considered surplus due to age, sterility or genetic overrepresentation in the population. The success of the tiger masterplan is contingent on surplus animals being removed in a timely fashion to make room for animals resulting from recommended breedings and to accommodate the addition of new founder stock. Ideally, these animals would be lost through attrition by natural causes (old age), but improvements in health care and management have greatly lengthened an average tiger's life span. Both the Siberian and Sumatran tiger populations have added new founders in recent years as they approach the goal of 26 effective founders for each program. Two Siberian tiger founders were added to the AZA Tiger SSP in 1991 and another two in 1993, all young wild-caught tigers whose mother was likely killed by poachers.
SSP stands for Species Survival Plan, AZA is American Zoo and Aquarium Association. This was acheived by captive breeding...selecting specimens to pass on with the best traits to help the population beam up from staggering.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

yea I know that some are released. But the ones that are sold as pets is just stupid IMO. People who fight to help AND release animals are great. People who BREED for PETS are dumb, and should have their animals taken away. A few years ago I was bored, and looked up exotic animals for sale. I cam across hundreds of sites with them for sale. All you have to do is pay them, and go pick them up, no questions asked. I assume those people are like BYB or the dog world. but even so,  it is that easy to get a tiger or lion or alligator.There should be very strict rules for this.   Do all you may, you wont convince me other wise.

I guess you didn't read my posts. I am against that type of breeding too, and those types of owners. I have tried to sit here and convince you that those of us who are responsible, and rescue these animals from dangerous situations, are not the bad ones. Yet you continued to corner me and my posts, so it seemed, saying to myself and k.m.a and others that we will never convince you otherwise.

I will step down from here, and if anyone has any real questions, I really do not mind answering them as best that I can, though I'm fairly certain I've covered just about everything possible with my posts.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
yes I would feel bad for where it ends up, but thats the owners problem not mine, they chose to have a pet you shouldnt own at all. I didnt, and I wouldnt want it in my neighboorhood, period.

No, it wouldn't be. If the owner made the proper precautions that the animal did not get out, or any other thing could get in, then it would not be the owners fault at all. They made the proper precautions. You are at more danger to go out into a fair of people than to live next door to a properly enclosed exotic animal. If the circumstances were different and the animal was not properly enclosed, I would understand. But the majority of the time that simply is not true.
 

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 

You can not say that there is more dog bites then exotic pet cats. dogs out number wild cats probably 1000 to 1 in a household ratio, it would be unfair to try and put them together. Thats like me saying canada has more smokers compared to a country like belize that only has a few hundred thousand residents, as opposed to canada that has about 30million. It isnt fair becuase the numbers dont even come close.

Does that excuse the dogs' danger to us as human beings? As much as I love dogs, .. dogs are usually allowed free run of the house, are often allowed to run outside without a leash (off-leash parks) a good majority of the dog owners do not know how to care properly for their dog, thus no socialization.. whereas exotics are never kept outside uncontrolled (unless under irresponsible ownership), are kept behind two layers of fence, the enclosure fence and the perimeter so the public cannot come in contact with this animal, and there are a ton of great owners who properly socialize their exotic animal.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
yes they would rather run then face you in the wild, that is why they shouldnt be kept, they would be happier if the knew what wild was. Exactly my point about being attacked, then will attack and not even know it, they could be playing but their play is to rough. I know with my dog, I can bend down with out getting bit, and I know I wont get attacked by him when playing. It is unnacceptable to keep them as pets. period.

Of course they would, .. if you lived in a certain habitat and haven't seen humans on a regular basis you would run too. And that is not attacking, that is difference. When you own such an animal that exceeds 300 pounds, you do not engage in roughplay when it was young, and simply take the precautions to prevent a accidental injury. It's not attacking. I've been bitten by a dog who was not taught the proper boundries when playing.. and whose to say that your dog will never accidently nip or scratch you unintentionally?

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

I'm sorry, but you need to educate yourself on captive breeding then.
 
And again, originally keeping dogs was selfish.

Tankstar, I was just pondering, did the website you go to happen to be gotpetsonline.com?

They have several listings for outlandish exotics that go beyond big cats, such as bears, zebra, etc. How credible they are, I do not know, but what I have seen in my lifetime, involving these animals, it would not surprise me if someone were actually selling a zebra sitting in their pasture.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

ORIGINAL: Aery

and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

This just proves to me that you have little knowledge on captive breeding. There are indeed many animals who are bred in captivity and released into the wild in hopes of reproducing. You have been very misinformed to think otherwise.
Where releasing cannot be done, rescue people step in. Do not condemn them for their choice to help the animals that they know they can.

yea I know that some are released. But the ones that are sold as pets is just stupid IMO. People who fight to help AND release animals are great. People who BREED for PETS are dumb, and should have their animals taken away. A few years ago I was bored, and looked up exotic animals for sale. I cam across hundreds of sites with them for sale. All you have to do is pay them, and go pick them up, no questions asked. I assume those people are like BYB or the dog world. but even so,  it is that easy to get a tiger or lion or alligator.There should be very strict rules for this.   Do all you may, you wont convince me other wise.

 
Can you provide links to these sites?

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Without these people being able to interact with these animals, they may never have formed a bond with them.
 
Again...excuses to basically say something aside from "because I want to"...
 

err, why did you originally bring dogs into your house then?

ORIGINAL: k.m.a

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

ORIGINAL: Aery

and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

This just proves to me that you have little knowledge on captive breeding. There are indeed many animals who are bred in captivity and released into the wild in hopes of reproducing. You have been very misinformed to think otherwise.
Where releasing cannot be done, rescue people step in. Do not condemn them for their choice to help the animals that they know they can.

yea I know that some are released. But the ones that are sold as pets is just stupid IMO. People who fight to help AND release animals are great. People who BREED for PETS are dumb, and should have their animals taken away. A few years ago I was bored, and looked up exotic animals for sale. I cam across hundreds of sites with them for sale. All you have to do is pay them, and go pick them up, no questions asked. I assume those people are like BYB or the dog world. but even so,  it is that easy to get a tiger or lion or alligator.There should be very strict rules for this.   Do all you may, you wont convince me other wise.

Can you provide links to these sites?

I was hoping so too. They can be shut down. I will work to it if I can find them.
I highly doubt anyone advertising on the internet, breeder or not, has the appropriate requirements in the first place.

By the way, I have no problem saying that I bring my animals to educate people because I want to. Indeed, I  do want to. I want to spread the message in any way I can.

ORIGINAL: Aery

Everyone will have different views. And I do wish that nobody in the world abused their animals. However, banning these animals from being owned with doubtfully keep them from being owned by someone. You will probably never lift the restriction of owning these animals for educational purposes, to a complete ban on them forever. Zoos will still get rid of the animals they do not want to show off to the public. People will still sell them illegally. People will still own them as glamour pets, and there is where you lose all of the responsible owners, and you are stuck with an even bigger problem, and most likely, the deaths of a lot more people than what it stands at now, which really is not as many as what happens with domesticated animals.
I have too much in me to believe that a total ban on exotics (minus a few common ones) will spark an even bigger problem, as it has with certain dog breeds, and certain other animals in specific cities, counties, towns etc. I would hate to see this happen with these animals, that is even more grim a fate than what people claim is happening now.

But Aery, it can happen. I'm telling you, there are no exotic pet sanctuaries in Australia. We have sanctuaries for ferrets, rabbits, pet pigs, even, but not exotic pet sanctuaries. Why don't we have them? Because we're not allowed to have the pets in the first place. There aren't even sanctuaries for reptiles because there is no demand for one. Any reptile or other exotic that needs more care than the owner can provide is absorbed by the zoos and wildlife sanctuaries. I know from speaking to zoo employees that animals too old to be put on display are not sold or euthanised. There's no one to sell them to. They're kept in education centres or taken off display and kept in the back where it's quiet. The large animals that can't be taken off display are allowed to stay there until they die of old age, or are taken by other zoos as swaps or favours. No one sells exotics illegally because the country is full of whistle-blowers because we've been taught that these animals are not casual pets. It also helps that due to us being an island, you can't sneak these animals in. However, I still don't know of anyone that keeps kangaroos or possums or sugar gliders as illegal pets. I've never heard of it. I once heard of someone taking wild parrots from nests and selling them as pets, but as soon as the neighbours realised what he was doing, they called the police and he was brought to swift justice.

One thing I notice about Americans is that they often seem stuck in this idea that people won't stand for a new law. I'm telling you from experience, it can and does happen. New laws are brought in, the people obey them, sometimes grumbling and resentful, but soon we don't remember it being any other way.