Should people be allowed to have exotic pets?

Aery, wouldn't you rather see exotic pet ownership banned completely if it meant an end to the sanctuaries, rescues and abusive owners? Many people have made comments to me about how much they would like a hare for a pet, and I've been asked to let people know if Kit ever sires babies off a domestic rabbit (which I think is impossible, anyway). I've enjoyed Kit's company so much that a part of me would love to set about domesticating the brown hare so that I and other fans could always have them around. But then I think of all the hares that would be mistreated or misunderstood as a result and I'm happy to leave that idea dead and buried. I'll have my one hare until he dies, hopefully of old age, and then I will move on, thankful that I had the chance to get to know that one hare. I'd rather deprive myself and others like me of pet hares than make them available to people who won't understand them. In my experience, you can licence and restrict all you like, but unless you regulate the industry so tightly that it's practically impossible to get an exotic pet, you'll always need sanctuaries. 

Aery, I am not arguing with you per se.  I respect your opinion.  I do however have a few questions?  Are you pro purchasing large cats?  Do you think its ok to go out shopping for a cougar, even if it is done responsibly, the way someone from this forum would go about buying a show dog?  From the majority of your posts on this thread, it seems that you are pro rescue, but you seem to waver and I don't have a clear picture in my head of where you stand on this subject.  I mean sure if someone does their research and has the means to provide proper care(and this is where you and I differ in opinions, I'm not debating that) do you believe it is ok for them to buy one and thus contribute to the growing number of exotics that need rescuing?  Because that is what it does you have to admit.  Even if that one lives a good long happy life in captivity, it leaves another without hope of said life.  Just like when someone buys from a puppy mill.  It leaves one more puppy in a shelter to be euthanized.

ORIGINAL: Aery

Dogs run away from home every single day. Many dog bite cases are from strays.
Exotic cat owners don't let mistakes happen. They are educated enough to know the risks involved, and it just doesn't happen. If they are responsible.

I will not speak for those owners who don't know what they are doing. They do not deserve any animals in my opinion, unless it is full of cotton.

 
Lots of morons own these types of animals, and lots of them do escape and kill. I have hard quite a few cases of it in the last few years, from my area alne, people had a pack of wolves, who escaped and reeked havok for a few weeks until they were shot, or hit by cars from the high way they were running on. Tigers and lions have escaped and done a world of damage. It does happen,, just like dogs. But it is far worse.
 
There is no way that any one is helping them from becoming extinct, wild animals should be kept in the wild. period. it will not help extinction by breeding only to be bought by others, as they will never be wild animals, so why bother.
 
If I had a neighboor who owned a large cat, no matter how friendly it supposidly is, I would be beyond mad, and I would start a big huff untill it was gone. Anything can happen. these animals are in no way like household dogs and cats,, house hold dogs and cats are domesticated, over 1000's upon 1000's of years. And they still act out too, attacking people ect. So who is to say no big cat will attack some one, including its handler, bottle fed or not.
 
I love animals, I love large cats and exotics and wild animals, but 99% of them need to be kept in the wild.

Dogs run away from home every single day. Many dog bite cases are from strays.

 
And most bites are from dogs within the home upon residents or visitors, including neighbors...so how does posting bite stats actually help here?  Even zoo's...lose animals...lol.
 
Whoever wrote that neighbors should have the final say is dead on right. IF you want to keep this sort of critter do not expect to live in comfort in the suburbs or city limits...because if they are allowed to know about chances are slim to none, you would be welcomed.
 
Corvus's logic really is inarguable, IMO...no large, predatory exotics allowed..no need for sanctuaries or "breeders" and more reason for people to actually get off their duff and travel a bit even if it's only to the zoo to get thier wild critter fix. Win-Win.

Carmello in particular lived inside their house with their 2 other bobcats, and now I think he's around 1yr old, .. and lives in an outdoor enclosure because he simply is too big to live indoors, and could cause destruction or just generally lean on a window, break it, and escape.

and then...

Gina, the wild is great. However, the wild also offers some other things to consider: No shelter from elements (climate/habitat depending) no medical care, danger from other animals, danger from humans, danger from diseases..

Yes, those animals look happy.
Are you trying to tell me the ones Aery and I posted don't?

Its funny how you didn't post the pics of Carmello destroying the house and leaning on the window to ESCAPE!  As far as I'm concerned a happy animal does not escape.  My dogs will run for hours, but they are not happy if I'm not with them.  I think you would be hardpressed to find a wild animal being destructive in the wild. 


You misunderstood me. Carmello is in an outdoor enclosure to prevent these things. A Cougar can easily take a mattress down the stairs for a toy. And, a full grown cougar can easily break a window by leaning on it. The owners took the proper measures to make sure that never happens so that carmello does not get taken away and euthanized or sent to live in a sanctuary away from the people who raised them. Which is especially hard for exotics, they are very dedicated to their owners.

Corvus,
 
[sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]  [sm=wink2.gif]

Ah well, tried my best.

I will ask though, how is owning an exotic bred in captivity any worse than taking a horse from a wild band of mustangs, and owning/breeding it?

That one, I never understood, but I've seen it all too many times. And I have seen people who have done this put me down for my choice of animals.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

ORIGINAL: Aery

Dogs run away from home every single day. Many dog bite cases are from strays.
Exotic cat owners don't let mistakes happen. They are educated enough to know the risks involved, and it just doesn't happen. If they are responsible.

I will not speak for those owners who don't know what they are doing. They do not deserve any animals in my opinion, unless it is full of cotton.

Lots of morons own these types of animals, and lots of them do escape and kill. I have hard quite a few cases of it in the last few years, from my area alne, people had a pack of wolves, who escaped and reeked havok for a few weeks until they were shot, or hit by cars from the high way they were running on. Tigers and lions have escaped and done a world of damage. It does happen,, just like dogs. But it is far worse.

It's very unlikely.
Dog bite Statistics:

In 2001, an estimated 68 million dogs were pets in the United States.

In 2001, an estimated 368,245 victims were treated for dog bite related injuries.
Source:http://www.dogbitelegalcenter.com/resources/dogbite-statistics.html\
Exotic cat injuries:
I could not find any actual statistics for these, as they are not in a large enough numbers to have statistics. Here's some links instead: [linkhttp://tigerlady.blogster.com/excellent_article_statistics.html]http://tigerlady.blogster.com/excellent_article_statistics.html[/link]
About how media twists things.
[linkhttp://www.thefcf.com/legal/legalisoct1805.asp?key=318]http://www.thefcf.com/legal/legalisoct1805.asp?key=318[/link]
And, the FCF (Feline Conservative Federation) lists some common misconceptions about private owners.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar
There is no way that any one is helping them from becoming extinct, wild animals should be kept in the wild. period. it will not help extinction by breeding only to be bought by others, as they will never be wild animals, so why bother.

We need a place for these litters of animals, and some cannot simply be rehabilitated. Habitat is becoming scarce, we have poachers about, and if we do not find places for these animals we will lose the species as we know it.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar
If I had a neighboor who owned a large cat, no matter how friendly it supposidly is, I would be beyond mad, and I would start a big huff untill it was gone. Anything can happen. these animals are in no way like household dogs and cats,, house hold dogs and cats are domesticated, over 1000's upon 1000's of years. And they still act out too, attacking people ect. So who is to say no big cat will attack some one, including its handler, bottle fed or not.
 
I love animals, I love large cats and exotics and wild animals, but 99% of them need to be kept in the wild.

Once you got over this huff and the cat was gone.. would you care what happened to it after it was gone? I'll tell you what would happen to it: It would most likely be euthanized or stuffed into an already crowded sanctuary. And youre right, some animals do attack. But these attacks are far less common than the most common household pet: the dog. So we should get rid of these animals then? They have been domesticated for a long time and yet they still have more bite injuries recorded than any exotic animal? weird! With dogs and with exotics, attacks are preventable. You need some common sense, enough money, and knowledge about the breed. That is all. A trainer may get attacked by it's Tiger because it s/he may have bent down will in the enclosure. S/he may have walked in at a amorous or playful time of the day. There are so many reasons why an animal will choose to attack. And might I add, exotic cats in particular and domestic cats, do not like confortation.(Sp?) Thats why you hardly ever see lynx, cougars .. bobcats in the wild. They'd rather run than face you.

Tankstar, you seem extremely overly-hostile about a subject you don't know the truth about. After numerous posts of my telling the truth about the RESPONSIBLE owners of these animals (no matter how many cases you throw at me, I highly doubt you have ever heard cases from responsible owners) you still tell me the same things that I have already responded to.

This is why I will probably not be contributing anymore to this thread. I was hoping it would be educational, but it seems that it has either become an attack, or will become an attack.

Mm, people of this board jump at the defense of the breeds bullied by BSL to prevent the animals from being euthanized or rehomed or abused.. yet they are doing the same to exotic animals... if exotics were outlawed the great majority of them would be euthanized or would die in the wild. Which will do nothing but worsen their condition in the wild

Not to mention, most of these owners do a great deal of educational activities with their animals. I go to schools with mine, and to those 4-H clubs as well. I go where I can. And everyone I know with exotics does as well.
So there is no possible way you can say that we aren't helping the animals in the wild. My animals and many others' have changed the views of thousands of children and adults. They see the abuse these animals are put through when bought as glamour pets, they see abuse done by many many zoos (even those you think are amazing because of how popular they are), they see the damage done by poachers and by land development, by the greed of the government only setting aside 100 acres or so for reservations, assuming that is enough to bring up populations.

Without these people being able to interact with these animals, they may never have formed a bond with them. They have an intimate reason to go out and help now. Most of them did not even know that a tiger isn't just a big cat, and that there are several species, that they swim, and hunt rarely because of the length of time they stay satiated. They had no idea that lions didn't really live in the jungle, they had no idea that all big cats do not live in prides, they had no idea how fast the habitats are depleting. They had no idea what suffering was.
One little girl was bawling her eyes out, because she felt so bad for one of my rescues and his previous life. She asked if I wanted money to help take care of him. That kind of outreach cannot be done by magazines of television alone.

You may think what you want, but I won't stop when I am so far ahead, when I and so many others have done so much more than most of the general public can admit to.

I don't see how people still have their "Animals should stay in the wild" view after reading your posts, Aery, you've done a great job explaining things..
 
And the fact remains, animals are no longer just in the "wild" anymore.They never can be left alone in the wild anymore, either. Humans have too much impact, whether they be owned and cared for by zoos, sanctuaries or private individuals, .. they will be impacted in their natural enviroment..

ORIGINAL: Aery

One little girl was bawling her eyes out, because she felt so bad for one of my rescues and his previous life. She asked if I wanted money to help take care of him. That kind of outreach cannot be done by magazines of television alone.

And that's exactly the point I was trying to make. If there was a blanket ban on exotic pets, or if they were ridiculously difficult to own, like in my country, then there is no abuse, no sanctuaries, no rescues, no crying children. Believe me, it's very nice to live in a country where exotic animal sanctuaries don't exist!

While I'm not overly fond of zoos anymore either, I do acknowledge the need for them as educational facilities. The zoo in Sydney has a superb education program, and when people look at breathtaking snow leopards, they learn why those animals are endangered. It was at that snow leopard display with its painting of a skinned snow leopard that I really learnt what it meant to take an animal's fur and make a coat out of it, and I learnt what I could do to discourage this practice. Every school that can make a day trip to that zoo does. I don't think you can do much better than that. They even have an outreach program where they take animals to schools that can't get to a zoo.

Aery, k.m.a, I'm sympathetic. I have to be, because I have my own exotic, who I adore. But I can't find it in me to justify large exotic pets, and I believe the smaller ones should be heavily restricted. Herp licences are still too easy to get over here, I know, because I've seen pet lizards carted around until they're so tired, dehydrated, and hungry that they go limp. We struggle to meet the needs of our domestic animals, so what business do we have starting on the wild ones? There are not so many exotic pets in the world that it's impossible to phase them out, IMO. I think the zoos would absorb a lot of them before seeing them euthanised, and there could be an amnesty allowing you to keep your current pets, but get no more. Wouldn't living in a world with no exotic pet abuse be better than living in a world with no exotic pets? Hell, if I had to pay money to have access to a dog just to prevent dog abuse, shelters, euthanasia, rescue cases, well I would. It would be hard, but it would be worth it. Just imagine a world without dog abuse! That is unlikely to ever be possible due to the sheer volume of dogs and their heavy dependence on humans, but for exotic animals, it's feasible. Wouldn't it be worth living without them as pets to know there was no abuse in your country at least?

ORIGINAL: Aery

I will ask though, how is owning an exotic bred in captivity any worse than taking a horse from a wild band of mustangs, and owning/breeding it?

That one, I never understood, but I've seen it all too many times. And I have seen people who have done this put me down for my choice of animals.

 
I think taking mustangs out of the wild is very wrong also.