Should people be allowed to have exotic pets?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Should people be allowed to have exotic pets?

    I believe that, pets are pets, they are all exotic in their own silly and unique way, I think that there is a conflict in thinking about going down the middle of the jungle to find something special... I live in a country full of exotic animals, and I guess that we view them in a different way...but  I would love to hear what people in countries like the US have to say about this topic...hope to hear from you soon!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Depends on the size of the animal and it's propensity to ruin native ecosystems or pose a danger to it's owner, or the neighborhood it resides in should it somehow escape.
     
    In general, I am very much against the keeping of exotic higher mammals, esp predator species like large cats or canids, and also...primates. Primates kept as pets really irk me.
     
    Reptiles, fish, birds..perhaps...if they are housed and confined and kept properly...but that's often NOT the case...and these species conversely often pose the greatest risk of escape and thus destroying native ecosystems as mentioned.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Depends on what you're calling an "exotic". In my state, rabbits and parakeets are considered "exotic".

    I don't think people should be allowed to keep lions and tigers and bears (oh, my!) or any enormous animal that needs miles of space to be happy. Small house pets, though, as long as they know what they're doing, are ok.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well, I come from rats, which, for whatever reason, are considered "exotics." (Err, they've been domesticated for a few hundred years now. Domestic rats can't survive in the wild. Throw my rats outside, and they'd be scratching at the door wondering where their fleece blankets and cookies went. [8D]) Here's my take on the whole thing.
     
     
    I personally think there is nothing inherently wrong with the keeping of exotics in itself. The problem comes from the complete idiocy of so many of the people who do it. It's mind numbing. Imagine the worst, most ignorant BYB dog owner you can think of. Now multiply that by 10,000. There you have your average reptile, rodent, or bird owner.
     
    I did rat rescue, and bred, for several years. The main reason I quit breeding? Finding good adoptive homes was the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life. My site is out of date, since I don't breed anymore, but here's a link to my adoption application: [linkhttp://ratsiclesrattery.bravehost.com/Adoption.html]http://ratsiclesrattery.bravehost.com/Adoption.html[/link]
     
    Seems pretty simple and straightforward, right? All it covers is the basics of rat care, nothing major or super advanced.  You wouldn't BELIEVE the number of  people who answered simple questions such as "What do you feed your rats" with answers such as "dog food." [:o]  Or, when asked for their vets contact information, became completely outraged that rats ACTUALLY NEEDED TO SEE A VET! (Didn't you know, vets were only for cats and dogs?? [8|])
     
    I would say I was able to approve less than 2 applications for every 100 that I received. I did 2-3 litters a year, averaging 8-12 kittens in a litter. I was able to adopt out maybe 3-4 per litter, and those usually went to other breeders. You can see why breeding isn't particularly feasible when you have to keep 75% of every litter.
     
    I run a pet rat forum, and am active on several others, and you wouldn't believe the numbe of people who have had rats for 5-6 years, yet are still keeping them alone, on pine bedding, feeding them hamster food, and denying them vet care. There simply isn't enough information out there, and when they finally do find that information, most of those owners dismiss it, saying "it's only a rat, I'm not wasting my money on it."
     
    I stopped doing rescue for the same reason. I was tired of seeing, emmaciated, deathly ill rats whose owners were so ignorant that they didn't even know they were sick. It's so insanely difficult to see animals in such horrible shape, when whatever caused it could be prevented by something as simple as good diet and some cheap antibiotics.
     
    And this is for a widespread, common, found-in-all-pet-stores animal like a domestic rat. It's much, much worse for more exotic animals.
     
    The cruelty in keeping exotics lies in the lack of information about them, and the lack of motivation to learn about them on the part of most of their owners. Anyone can buy a 20 dollar iguana at a pet store, and, on the advice of the petstore employee, feed them crickets and lettuce. And when that iguana suffers and dies, hey, it's no big deal, it was only $20 and you certainly didn't waste alot of money feeding it. On the other hand, you COULD spend a ton of money properly balancing a varied plant based diet for said iguana, make sure it gets proper heat and lighting and vet care, handle it so that when it hits 6 feet long it's still manageable, and otherwise educate yourself. Which route do you think the average pet store impulse buyer is going to take?
     
    I could cite examples of how idiocy and apathy prevales for pretty much every commonly kept exotic out there.
     
    And not only does the ignorance lie with owners, but with veterinarians too. Keeping rats and other exotics, I've had to familiarize myself with every single symptom of every single illness that these animals can get. And every single medicine and procedure used to treat it. Finding a vet that will even treat exotics is difficult- when you finally find one who doesn't scoff at you for even asking them to treat your pet, you're treatedt like a second class citizen, ignored, belittled, and only seen at all when all of the dog and cat patients are done. Then, you have to be able to go in and say "This is what's wrong with my pet. This is what I need you to do to fix it." That makes most vets angry, and rather than admitting that they know nothing about that species, they argue. I recently moved from an area where I had a GREAT rat vet who knew me well, and basically gave me whatever I needed, and did whatever I asked for my rats. Shortly after moving, my colony came down with SDA. I was frantic to find a vet, and managed to find only one here that would even see them. They needed an ELISA test to confirm that it was SDA- a blood test sent to a specific veterinary school. They hadn't heard of the test, claimed that "It was impossible to draw blood from a rat" (no, just difficult. You draw it from the tail.) and refused to do it. So I had to go just on my assumption that it was SDA. So I told them that I needed some serious antibiotics for them to fight of the secondary infections- direct injections of Baytril for the worst and then a 14 day course of Doxy/Amox was the first thing I wanted to try.
     
    No such luck. The vet laughed at me, insisted that the ONLY safe thing to use on rats was an incredibly diluted form of Baytril given orally. He then insisted that the only way he would give me enough medication for my whole colony would be to bring in every. single. one. of my rats. I had 38 rats. There would have been a 40 dollar office fee per rat, and then another 50 dollars per rat per course of  antibiotics (which, like I said, was only dilluted baytril and wouldn't have done a thing.) Obviously I couldn't afford that. My old vet had always just had me bring in the sickest ones, and then he'd gice me whatever I needed for my colony. That's pretty standard practice for most vets who see rats. This one would have none of it.
     
    So, because of this incompetency, I ended up losing 29 of my 38 rats. I ended up having to treat them with cheap Baytril from the feed store, since it was all I could get my hands on. After spending an obscene amount of money at the vet, effictively wiping out what little savings I had. If I had been able to get the testing and medications I asked for, I doubt I would have lost more than 5 or so. [:(]
     
    I say all of this to illustrate the point that there is SO much misinformation and ignorance out there pertaining to exotics. So many people get these animals, have no clue how to care for them, and then can't tell when they're sick from poor care until it's too late, and when they finally do go to the vet, the vet doesn't know what to do either. It's so, so disheartening to see how little knowledge there is out there for these types of animals. To make things worse, virtually all of the books, and many of the websites, contain nothing but misinformation and completely outdated facts. The average person who is new tot hat type of animal can't possibly be expected to be able to tell what sources are good, and what aren't.
     
     
    In all the years that I have been invoved in various exotic animals, I have yet to see one. single. person outside of the hobby who knew how to properly care for their pet. Not one. That's where the problem lies. Ignorance.
     
    Do I think that the ownership of these animals should be banned? Obviously not, since I own them. I do think that VERY specific licensing should be in place for ALL species of animals (dogs and cats included) and a simple, basic test designed by real experts should be a requirement to get a license. Without one, you wouldn't be able to buy or sell an animal. I also think that VETS need to have more training in species other than dogs and cats- you simply have no idea how difficult it is to find a  REAL exotics vet who actually knows their stuff.
     
    So theres my little (long) exotics rant. [8D] I think the solution lies in requiring that owners demonstrate that they're educated and responsible before allowing ownership, rather than an outright ban of that species.  
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have mixed feelings about this but I do think it has a lot to do with the knowledge of the owner and the conditions of the animals in captivity. I know people who have the same depth of relationship with their birds as I do with my dogs and I actually envy them (since large birds have a much longer life-span).
     
    My sister just spent $600 to have a tumor removed from her hairless rat (first picture) who is already beyond it's expected life-span so I think if people are that dedicated it's not bad. Her ratties do not seem to mind being caged but I have a hard time with animals that have to live in cages.
     
    I've had ferrents (who I think are great pets) and I'd let them run around my office but they are amazing escape artists and I had more than one scare that I had lost one. I also had sugar gliders (bottom picture) and didn't find them as good pets. They are a riot to watch but do not seem like animals that should be caged and while they do bond with their people they are never cuddly, they'll just live in your sleeve or other clothing, sometimes on a shoulder, for as long as you'll let them. These guys were also free in my office a lot of the time but still not free enough. No local vet had the first notion about sugar gliders and when mine got sick with something that was apparently contageous I lost them all within a few days. Very sad.
     
     

    • Gold Top Dog
    My sister just spent $600 to have a tumor removed from her hairless rat (first picture) who is already beyond it's expected life-span so I think if people are that dedicated it's not bad. Her ratties do not seem to mind being caged but I have a hard time with animals that have to live in cages.

     
    Generally, friendly rats who are bonded with their owners need to be given free-range time in a rat-proofed area. Rats are in a bit of a weird place because they're *not* strictly caged pets, but not strictly free-range pets either. They're really more like ferrets in that regard. But rats definitely can and should be given free range time, a properly socialized one won't take off and hide somewhere like a mouse or a ferret.
     
    (And, for fun, here are some old videos of my rats free ranging
    [linkhttp://media.putfile.com/Boys-out-time-1]http://media.putfile.com/Boys-out-time-1[/link]
    [linkhttp://media.putfile.com/Boys-out-time-2]http://media.putfile.com/Boys-out-time-2[/link]
    [linkhttp://media.putfile.com/Boys-out-time-3]http://media.putfile.com/Boys-out-time-3[/link] )
     
     
    Also, $600 is VERY overpriced for a tumor removal, anywhere. Just another testament to how difficult proper, reasonably priced vet care is to find for these animals. [:(]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Depends on the exotic.  My chinchilla is considered an exotic.  Chinchillas and tigers are two very different things imo.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I met a guy who was having lion cubs in his very small backyard to take them with the tourists and take pics with them
     
    Some of them were starting to get bigger, i dont even remember what he said he does when they get older but for sure if he is still alive he does not keep them
     
    Dogs should not be indoors 24/7 they need to go out and excersice, and they go out because they are not dangerous, what about exotic animals, they need excersice too but they cant go out like a domestic pet
     
    Depends on the how much "exotic" the animal is
    • Gold Top Dog
    I also think it really depends on the species.  Animals like wolves, tigers, bobcats, etc. do not belong in homes.  Now animals like birds (some of them), rats, ferrets, and sugar gliders can make great pets with the right owners.  My grandma has gliders, and I just love them.  They enjoy being petted, and I'm just dying to start clicker training one to jump to certain hands.  They also bark and sound like a small dog.  lol, just another reason for me to love them.
    • Gold Top Dog
    OY Ratsicles, If I didnt enjoy reading your posts so much...  Well I'd probably get to alot more theads... lol.  Don't stop though.  You  know your stuff.

    I like to watch Campus Vets on Sunday afternoons.  Occasionally they explore the Exotic Animal area of Vet Med.  I'm always amazed at what is considered Exotic.  From what I see, if its not a dog, cat, cow or horse, its exotic. 

    I think that the predation skills of an animal should have a part in whether said animal is allowable.  Education and resources should not be second to that though. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: erl

    I also think it really depends on the species.  Animals like wolves, tigers, bobcats, etc. do not belong in homes.  Now animals like birds (some of them), rats, ferrets, and sugar gliders can make great pets with the right owners.  My grandma has gliders, and I just love them.  They enjoy being petted, and I'm just dying to start clicker training one to jump to certain hands.  They also bark and sound like a small dog.  lol, just another reason for me to love them.
    I agree with everything else exept about wolves because wolves and dogs are pretty much the same with common characteristics.
    • Gold Top Dog
    OY Ratsicles, If I didnt enjoy reading your posts so much...  Well I'd probably get to alot more theads... lol

     
    [sm=lol.gif]  Gosh, I know, I do tend to write novels. Even though I've had them my whole life, dogs really aren't my forte, so I can't post in many dog threads with alot of confidance. When something pertaining to "exotics" comes up, I latch on...I know SO much more about various rodents and reptiles than I do about dogs.
     
    Plus, when I get started on any thread at all, I have a hard time shutting myself up. It's a fault of mine. [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I used to be on the side of "Exotics are not pet material." But now I'm on the other side. (The exotic animals I'm talking about are bobcats, lynx etc.) What changed my mind was [linkhttp://www.exoticcatz.com]www.exoticcatz.com[/link] & [linkhttp://www.exoticcatz.com/forum]www.exoticcatz.com/forum[/link] The site is filled with tons of great info. The forum is populated by people like us who own lynx, pumas, tigers, lions and sevrals. They are great and informative people, and I admire their dedication to their animals.
     
    (Ok, don't flame me) I actually do intend to own a lynx or a bobcat if I choose to relocate. I would probably move to oregon. Now, before doing so I do intend on doing a FCF (Feline Conservation Federation) husbandry course. Link: [linkhttp://www.thefcf.com/husbandry/husbcoursintro.asp?key=62]http://www.thefcf.com/husbandry/husbcoursintro.asp?key=62[/link]. Of course this would be hardly enough. So, once I am done high school, I will be applying for an apprenticeship at T.I.G.E.R.S but this is several years away.. and still a 'maybe'. I am fully aware of the needs of the exotics I am interested in, and I won't take one in if I knowingly cannot pay for its food, or any maintenance. I can already tell the mood of my current domestic cat tiger (Lol) by the way her tail moves or even what the disposition of her whiskers are. Thats another important step, and perhaps even more important than a proper diet: Understanding their behaviour. Being able to say: "I love my Tiger and I trust him, but I know that if I go into his enclosure right now he will hurt me, intenional or not."
     
    I think anyone should be allowed to own any animal they choose to own if they can give it the proper care it needs.
    • Silver
    I am an exotic pet owner. I do not think that everyone should be restricted, because there are people who genuinely know what they are doing, and do not put others at risk.

    I don't think it's fair to lump all exotic pet owners into one group. Or to say that the animals belong in the wild, because that could be said about most animals people keep.

    And who is to say what is exotic and what isn't?!
    • Silver
    K.M.A, that site is an amazing place for great information!
    The lady who runs it is a very informative person.