Should people be allowed to have exotic pets?

    • Gold Top Dog
    if i were to say people should not be allowed to own anything capable of killing them

     
    A lot more people are killed by their spouses than will ever be killed by wild animals.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: bunni

    if i were to say people should not be allowed to own anything capable of killing them


    A lot more people are killed by their spouses than will ever be killed by wild animals.

     
    You got that right! Not only that, a dog is capable of killing a person as well. Anyways, the whole premise of pet ownership is based on selfishness. Let's be real here... we really don't need a pet in order to live. We get them because we want them.
     
    Anyways, I've owned exotic pets. They've ranged from reptiles to amphibians to ferrets. The most exotic I've ever owned was a degu and a southern flying squirrel which I still own. With that said, there are some exotics I would own and some I wouldn't own. While I have no problems owning a ferret, degu or southern flying squirrel, I would not own a primate or a large cat. I don't have the space nor financial resources to properly own them. Now just because *I* wouldn't own one doesn't mean that someone else can't properly maintain one. If a person has done a lot of research, can financially afford one and can properly maintain it, I have no problem with people owning exotics.
    • Gold Top Dog
    A lot more people are killed by their spouses than will ever be killed by wild animals.


    haha, yeah mine is about to find out just how true that is [:D]

    but the numbers may be different if the same amount of people that had spouses owned wild animals.

    it bothers me when people have to have a wild animal just because it is unique, because no one else has one. it is one thing for one to be raised in captivity because it is unable to thrive in the wild, it is another to breed the captives for no other purpose than to maintain them as housepets. do we really need to domesticate every creature on the planet, didn't we already learn our lesson with dogs and cats?


    • Gold Top Dog
    A lot more people are killed by their spouses than will ever be killed by wild animals.
    Ummm... I don't OWN my spouse.  And his family has been domesticated for generation upon generation, I swear!

    You would, most likely, be in awe of the amazing care these animals receive by their owners, who dedicate their lives to helping them.
    Those who do have these animals as glamour pets, should be targeted with the most force. They are the ones most likely keeping offspring of offspring ripped from their mothers in the wild.
    Are you talking about animals that have been rescued from homes where people were not taking care of them?  I understand that there are animals that cannot be re released into the wild.  Animals that could not take care of themselves in the wild.  I find that in itself sad.  You don't?  I agree that there is a scale of ownership equality.  People buying from roadside vendors are just below the ones selling them on the roadside.  But buying a wild animal to keep in a house or a cage in your yard is not as far from that as you would have people believe, JMHO.  Rescueing castoffs is a different matter.  BUT, breeding said castoffs would send you right back up to where the roadside vendors reside.  That said, I do believe in breeding to preserve the species in its natural enviroment.  Personally I believe preserving the natural enviroment to be a better path.

    Carmello in particular lived inside their house with their 2 other bobcats, and now I think he's around 1yr old, .. and lives in an outdoor enclosure because he simply is too big to live indoors, and could cause destruction or just generally lean on a window, break it, and escape.

    and then...
    Gina, the wild is great. However, the wild also offers some other things to consider: No shelter from elements (climate/habitat depending) no medical care, danger from other animals, danger from humans, danger from diseases..

    Yes, those animals look happy.
    Are you trying to tell me the ones Aery and I posted don't? ;)


    Its funny how you didn't post the pics of Carmello destroying the house and leaning on the window to ESCAPE!  As far as I'm concerned a happy animal does not escape.  My dogs will run for hours, but they are not happy if I'm not with them.  I think you would be hardpressed to find a wild animal being destructive in the wild. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: gaylemarie
    do we really need to domesticate every creature on the planet, didn't we already learn our lesson with dogs and cats?


    I really love this question.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I particularly despise the captivity of these creatures in circus act type places/rodeo/ certain zoos are worse than others/ sea world type places, anywhere where the creatures are used for entertainment.
     
    Seems to me that if as a human race we were all so concerned about "saving" these creatures then we would be looking at the world pollution indexes.  And the deforestation of this planet.   
     
    Locally you see it where you live.  The quality of life of not only the wild will and are paying/ but that of ourselves and our future generations.
     
    So, rather than grabbing up "exotics", maybe a bit more attention to what is occuring in these creatures environments (that is not to exclude your own!)  The ecosystems all inhabit are critically fragile.  The ability to smite down forest and ruin air  is occurring in record time.  All due to our improvements of lifestyle and ability to get what we want and now.
     
    I think if a person really cares about these wild creatures, more thought would go into sparing their families in the wild.  Sparing ecosystems may seem like money loss to some, but the price has yet to be tallied.  The total cost will be a bill no one will be able to pay back.
    • Silver
    I dont care how big a encloser is (unless it is 50 acres or so) these animals instincts are to run free with our bing blocked in, they are not meant to be kept in a acre encloser for their whole lives. I think it is cruel and there is no need what -so-ever to keep one as a pet. it is selfish. Dogs have been domesticated for 1000's of 1000's of years. Dogs know no difference as most have been 'made" they are not wolves, they are dogs. Dogs and wolves are differnt. Wolves should not be kept either. It i just selfish to do so. These animals need loads of room to run and climb. They really loose their meaning if kept in  a cage. Most are endangered animals, tigers lions ect. They should be out inthe wild, making new lions and tigers so that these wonderfull free animals are not instinct in 25 years.
    • Silver
    I have been keeping a close eye on this thread as I have always had a strong interest in exotics.
     
    I think that someone getting into exotics needs to be aware of a few things:
       -These animals will not behave like traditional pets (cats/dogs).
       -By taking these animals into your home, you are not saving them from 
         extinction, but perhaps worsening their situation if they aren't captive bred.
       -In most cases exotics in need of 'rescue' are better off left to being handled by
         official sanctuaries and rescue organisations with the resources to care for their
         unique demands.
     
    With that said, I do believe there are people out there capable of giving some exotic species in captivity as happy as a life that our dogs and cats have. I have worked in zoos and wildlife rehab for a few years. I had daily hands on contact with kodiak bears, cougars, monkeys, lemurs and gibbons as well as many species of hoofstock and the large flightless birds. I've rehabbed countless squirrel, raccoon, deer and possum.
     
    Personally, I have owned some of the smaller species considered 'exotics' by veterinary standards. Chinchillas, other small rodents, a quaker parrot, several tortoises... I have bred show rabbits for going on 10 years. I have my BA in animal sciences and am about to continue on with my MS. I would love someday to own some of the exotic hoofstock (zebra, antelope, 'wild' cattle) and can't see myself without a few species of the bizarre!
     
    I really don't like seeing large cats, bears and primates/monkeys in privately owned hands, just because they are such large, needy animals. And regardless how much attention you may give them, it's not the same. But, I don't feel as though I can speak out against keeping them in captivity, while I keep smaller species. I would like to see regulations in all states for the larger, more dangerous species requiring hands-on training and approval of the conditions they are kept in. I don't think that's too much too expect.
     
    I agree that ALL animal species that are in our posession (or generations ago depending on the species) are there because we want them, not because they want us.
     
    Huskymom- I think it's a bit of a generalization to say that a happy animal will not run away. My dog wanders off if given the chance, but I hardly think it is because he isn't happy with me. How many lost dogs out there ran off because they were unhappy? Very few, I'd guess. Most probably follow their nose past the limit of their familiarity with their local environment and can't get back home.
    • Bronze
    I think anyone owning a large cat or bear or that type of animal needs to not only have training and a license, but should also be required to obtain permission from neighbors. 
     
    Try telling the next door neighbor whose son was mauled by a bobcat that it is ok to keep them confined.  I'm sure they would understand.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Moderator note:
    Been trying to get in touch with Seya...thread starter on this one...no luck.
     
    SO...against my own rule of asking the OP first...as in this case I cannot get a response from said OP...this thread will be moving to NDR...as it is not a dog related topic. Thanks!
    • Gold Top Dog
    In Australia, it's so hard to get your hands on both the required licences to keep large exotics, and the large exotics themselves. It's so hard, that no one really does it. Consequently, we don't have big cat sanctuaries or exotic pet sanctuaries, and yet, somehow, those of us that love wild animals manage to live without owning one. I love them so much that I did a zoology degree, and in the process of doing that degree, I discovered that what I really loved about wild animals was that they were wild. They didn't care much for me, and that's a big part of their appeal. I discovered that just watching them was just as rewarding as touching them.

    I worked on wild birds for a number of years, and now I don't think I could keep one in a cage. I know that my mother's budgie is so far removed from his wild roots that he couldn't survive in the wild, but does that make me enjoy seeing him in a cage? Nope. I've seen parrots like that flying around in the wild. Seeing them in a cage in a house makes me think of how much more beautiful they were flying free in huge flocks. To me, putting a parrot in a cage is like setting a jewel in a ring. Let's just keep it there where we can admire it whenever we like. Are they unhappy? Sometimes, but even when they're perfectly happy, I think about those wild ones flying out there in the world and I feel sad for what we think it's okay to do to animals just so we don't have to go out of our way to enjoy them.

    For the last time, I am not suggesting these animals are unhappy or neglected or kept against their will. I'm just saying I find that what I really appreciate in wild animals is seeing them in the wild where they belong. And yes, unless you have an enclosure the size of the animal's natural territory, you can't provide them with everything they should have.
    • Silver
    I had a very long reply typed out, but apprently the section was moved, and my reply was erased completely. So I will try to work on it once more.

    Just a few minutes please!
    • Silver
    ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

    It is however,....worse off than it's comparable wild  brother, because it is confined in an unnatural setting.
    Cannot say the same about the feral dog or cat...can you?



    I have had more trouble with feral dogs and cats than I have ever had with any of my exotics. I am involved in the rescue and rehab of both. I would gladly take on an exotic, than take on a dog or cat and try to mold them into the standard everyday pet that America and the rest of the world is looking for and requiring today. To be fair, our current views of a domestic companion are becoming extremely far-fetched, and most ferals will take a long time, if ever, to rehabilitate into that mold.

    it bothers me when people have to have a wild animal just because it is unique, because no one else has one. it is one thing for one to be raised in captivity because it is unable to thrive in the wild, it is another to breed the captives for no other purpose than to maintain them as housepets. do we really need to domesticate every creature on the planet, didn't we already learn our lesson with dogs and cats?


    As someone who has owned, and who knows and has spoken to many many other owners of exotic cats and other animals, I'll have to say, most of us have no qcquired our animals from breeders. In my case, my Caracal was pawned off by it's original owner, who had bought it from a breeder that I had to track down, to a person who had no idea what they were doing, and did want it because it was unique. Had I not stepped in, one of three things would have happened:
    -The cat would have died at an early age of malnutrition and joint disorders from being improperly confined.
    -It would have attacked it's own handler or one of the 3 children that lived there with the owner, and possibly killed them.
    -It would have attacked a dog or cat owned by the person or by a neighbour, and the animal would have been seized and euthanized, or the owner would punish the animal, and in turn, either be attacked, or break whatever spirit would have been left.
    I rescued this animal because I knew one of these things would have happened. The person wasn't even sure what kind of cat they owned. Had it been something larger (Caracals are a medium sized cat and require a lesser license in most places) this owner would be in a world of crap if nobody would've taken it from him.

    Its funny how you didn't post the pics of Carmello destroying the house and leaning on the window to ESCAPE!  As far as I'm concerned a happy animal does not escape.  My dogs will run for hours, but they are not happy if I'm not with them.  I think you would be hardpressed to find a wild animal being destructive in the wild. 


    Are you saying that this animal knew that it was supposed to be wild and actively tried to escape? He has been handraised, his sheer size is what k.m.a. was commenting on, not his will to break from from the 'wretches of his home' as it is sounding to be described as.
    An animal does not "escape" because it is unhappy. My dogs are always looking for new ways to get through the fencing. It is natural instinct to want to explore. All animals do it to an extent. Humans do it as well. It has nothing to do with the animal thinking there is a better life out there because it somehow knows there are wild animals out there of it's species. That can be said for dogs as well.

    As for the destruction, I'm not sure where you live, but in most places, all wild animals cause destruction. They don't know what they are doing is destruction, but by human standards, they are. Parks enforce rules on food, because of animals coming into camps and trying to get to foods left on the ground or out where they can smell it. They will rummage through everything, and cause a lot of damage to a lot of things. Deer will cause horrendous damage to crops, crops that are there to help whole families survive, solely. Certain types of birds cause damage to homes. Most animals cause some sort of destruction in the wild.
    And if you are in a home where you own dog or cat has never caused some sort of destruction on a small scale, then I believe you are the proud owner of some fine stuffed animals.

    So, rather than grabbing up "exotics", maybe a bit more attention to what is occuring in these creatures environments (that is not to exclude your own!)  The ecosystems all inhabit are critically fragile.  The ability to smite down forest and ruin air  is occurring in record time.  All due to our improvements of lifestyle and ability to get what we want and now.

    I think if a person really cares about these wild creatures, more thought would go into sparing their families in the wild.  Sparing ecosystems may seem like money loss to some, but the price has yet to be tallied.  The total cost will be a bill no one will be able to pay back.


    Dedicated owners of these exotics participate actively in conservation. I am one of them. I work with sanctuaries in various places, I do as much rehab as I possibly can these days, and I rescue the animals I can that are in need. Most of us (exotic owners) are highly involved in helping wildlife and the habitats.
    To say that we don't care about it would be a huge false statement. I have a very very close friend who is owned by a Couar who is part of several organizations. She has helped to rebuild habitats for these cats and for hundreds of other species.
    We do support conservation. Having these animals in our home has nothing to do with how we feel about them in the wild. We help both sides, captive and wild. And we enjoy every minute of it. I speak for myself and every single responsible and dedicated exotic pet owner there is when I say that.

    I think that someone getting into exotics needs to be aware of a few things:
      -These animals will not behave like traditional pets (cats/dogs).
      -By taking these animals into your home, you are not saving them from 
        extinction, but perhaps worsening their situation if they aren't captive bred.
      -In most cases exotics in need of 'rescue' are better off left to being handled by
        official sanctuaries and rescue organisations with the resources to care for their
        unique demands.


    Some of these animals do behave like your average dog or cat, with a few twists. I played fetch with my big cat, as do most owners of these cats. I keep mentioning cats, because it seems they are where most of the debate lie.
    I can honestly say, that I and hundreds of others have in fact done our part in helping to stop extinction become a reality, and we will never stop. There is no doubt in my mind about it. And this includes the work done by everyone who dedicated themselves to it. Or even helps out a little with what they can.

    Sanctuaries are amazing places. But they can only accomodate so much. There are few very good sanctuaries in this world. Many are shabby, and are running on donations and low funding. I would rather keep a rescued exotic in my own home where I know it will be taken care of and kept as happy as possible, than place it into a sanctuary that is severely low on space, time, and money. And you will see, that is all too common with sanctuaries. They just simply do not have enough room for them all. If they did, perhaps this discussion would not be going on the way it is. But they do not. And that is where many many many exotic owners come into play. We don't all buy from pet stores and breeders/brokers. Despite what you may think.


    I am trying my best to shed some truth onto some of the things I've read here. It seems like with the media stories of exotic pets being taken from their abusive owners, the good people have been pushed back into the shadows and not noticed for their extremely great efforts. Myself, and other responsible owners throw ourselves into helping these animals to live the best lives they can, both in captivity and in the wild. And we are doing a fantastic job compared to what things used to be like in the exotic pet circuit. We have helped to enforce the laws that stand today. Not just anyone can own an exotic pet, almost every state has laws on a very long list of what are considered to be exotic animals.

    I will never stop defending my own rights or the rights of those who are owned by these amazing animals and who properly care for them. I will never look at an animal in the wild and compare them to what I myself have in my home, in my yard, or to what I have seen those who I know to be responsible and dedicated have. To me, they all need our help, and I refuse to discriminate help and education based on where the animal is.
    If you take the time to get to know someone like myself who has owned some of the less-common and most debated exotics, you will understand better how we feel on the subject, and that we do not believe that just anyone should be able to own them, we do not believe that every single animal in the world should be in at least one person's home, we do believe that there are honest, responsible, full-of-heart people who genuinely care and are knowledgable to the point that they will never stop fighting to help these animals.

    Unfortunately, some people's views have spread from onwers, to even those who rescue. They do not support the sanctuaries, they do not support those who actively rescue, they only support the animals being left in the wild to fend for themselves. Human involvement has almost completely erased hope for any animal ever being able to be left to their own again. There will always have to be people there to help them along now due to building, poachers, etc etc.

    If my message and hopes of enlightenment have no penetrated here, then I will stop posting. I am only hoping to shed light on this subject. To help people better understand myself, and those of us who are dedicated to our animals, and every animal in the wild. It is unfair to compare us to those who have no knowledge whatsoever, to call us selfish or posessive, to say that we only want to be unique. We do not throw ourselves out into the community to show off our animals. Most of us avoid telling others about the animals we own, because it draws too much negative attention, and we would rather our animals live in peace, than have the local news with camera crews and protestors at our doors.
    We are just like your averge pet owner at heart, we just own something a little unorthodox, and that bothers more people and we feel it should sometimes. But we live with it. And try our best to educate until we turn blue, and beyond.
    Again, if I am wasting my own fingers here typing my side of this, then I will stop posting and move to other topics...but I feel the need to share, from an owner's point of view, the truth about owning these animals, and that we are not out to make names for ourselves.

    To those who have followed my posts and read them, I greatly appreciate it. It is hard enough to get someone to listen, let alone to get them to understand. If you listen, then I've done as much as I can, if you do not want to go any further with it.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: clarzoo
    Huskymom- I think it's a bit of a generalization to say that a happy animal will not run away. My dog wanders off if given the chance, but I hardly think it is because he isn't happy with me. How many lost dogs out there ran off because they were unhappy? Very few, I'd guess. Most probably follow their nose past the limit of their familiarity with their local environment and can't get back home.


    Granted my dogs are runners.  They love to run.  And if I'm not paying attention it would be easy for them to run too far to find thier way home.  That said, they do not run away from me.  If they do its because I am not meeting thier needs.  That means not only food and shelter, but exercise, stimulation, prey drive, and in the case of my dogs, long distance running, but some others may need to herd, retrieve etc.  It is instinct and must be met.  A large cat was not bred over years to chase rabbits around a fenced area.  Nor is it meant to eat already butchered meat from a cow that is not native to its true habitat.  It deserves to do what it was born to do.  Notice I said deserve and not need.  Although I personally think they need it to be fully balanced animals.  Also, if my dogs were to wander too far to find their way home, someone trying to help them get back to me is not likely to be hurt in any way.
    • Silver
    Dogs run away from home every single day. Many dog bite cases are from strays.
    Exotic cat owners don't let mistakes happen. They are educated enough to know the risks involved, and it just doesn't happen. If they are responsible.

    I will not speak for those owners who don't know what they are doing. They do not deserve any animals in my opinion, unless it is full of cotton.