Should people be allowed to have exotic pets?

ORIGINAL: corvus

But Aery, it can happen. I'm telling you, there are no exotic pet sanctuaries in Australia. We have sanctuaries for ferrets, rabbits, pet pigs, even, but not exotic pet sanctuaries. Why don't we have them? Because we're not allowed to have the pets in the first place. There aren't even sanctuaries for reptiles because there is no demand for one. Any reptile or other exotic that needs more care than the owner can provide is absorbed by the zoos and wildlife sanctuaries. I know from speaking to zoo employees that animals too old to be put on display are not sold or euthanised. There's no one to sell them to. They're kept in education centres or taken off display and kept in the back where it's quiet. The large animals that can't be taken off display are allowed to stay there until they die of old age, or are taken by other zoos as swaps or favours. No one sells exotics illegally because the country is full of whistle-blowers because we've been taught that these animals are not casual pets. It also helps that due to us being an island, you can't sneak these animals in. However, I still don't know of anyone that keeps kangaroos or possums or sugar gliders as illegal pets. I've never heard of it. I once heard of someone taking wild parrots from nests and selling them as pets, but as soon as the neighbours realised what he was doing, they called the police and he was brought to swift justice.

One thing I notice about Americans is that they often seem stuck in this idea that people won't stand for a new law. I'm telling you from experience, it can and does happen. New laws are brought in, the people obey them, sometimes grumbling and resentful, but soon we don't remember it being any other way.

I know of Australia's ban on owning native animals as pets.
I also know that people still keep them as pets, illegally. The amount of people who smuggle in these animals will not die down or out if there is a blanket ban. It has been proven with other animals time and time again, that's my point.

So until someone thinks they can make it work, and is actually going to try it, I will continue to do my part. And I will fight if they implement a ban from qualified handlers owning rescued animals, because there will be a need for us if it happens, I guarentee it. There is already a current need for them now to take some of these animals out of sanctuaries.


By the way, on a light hearted note, when I see someone from Oz say something about sugar gliders being illegal or anything close, I always have a little giggle inside. I have 4 of them and couldn't imagine life without their constant antics, and they are so common to see over here, it would be odd for me to live  there for a year and never see anyone with one in their pocket or playing with them in their homes, documenting their silly little habits.
As a matter of fact, one of mine is sitting right next to me, stealing my snack!
So it is odd to be on different ends of the spectrum, which is another reason there are so many debates.

ORIGINAL: k.m.a

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
yes I would feel bad for where it ends up, but thats the owners problem not mine, they chose to have a pet you shouldnt own at all. I didnt, and I wouldnt want it in my neighboorhood, period.

No, it wouldn't be. If the owner made the proper precautions that the animal did not get out, or any other thing could get in, then it would not be the owners fault at all. They made the proper precautions. You are at more danger to go out into a fair of people than to live next door to a properly enclosed exotic animal. If the circumstances were different and the animal was not properly enclosed, I would understand. But the majority of the time that simply is not true.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 

You can not say that there is more dog bites then exotic pet cats. dogs out number wild cats probably 1000 to 1 in a household ratio, it would be unfair to try and put them together. Thats like me saying canada has more smokers compared to a country like belize that only has a few hundred thousand residents, as opposed to canada that has about 30million. It isnt fair becuase the numbers dont even come close.

Does that excuse the dogs' danger to us as human beings? As much as I love dogs, .. dogs are usually allowed free run of the house, are often allowed to run outside without a leash (off-leash parks) a good majority of the dog owners do not know how to care properly for their dog, thus no socialization.. whereas exotics are never kept outside uncontrolled (unless under irresponsible ownership), are kept behind two layers of fence, the enclosure fence and the perimeter so the public cannot come in contact with this animal, and there are a ton of great owners who properly socialize their exotic animal.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
yes they would rather run then face you in the wild, that is why they shouldnt be kept, they would be happier if the knew what wild was. Exactly my point about being attacked, then will attack and not even know it, they could be playing but their play is to rough. I know with my dog, I can bend down with out getting bit, and I know I wont get attacked by him when playing. It is unnacceptable to keep them as pets. period.

Of course they would, .. if you lived in a certain habitat and haven't seen humans on a regular basis you would run too. And that is not attacking, that is difference. When you own such an animal that exceeds 300 pounds, you do not engage in roughplay when it was young, and simply take the precautions to prevent a accidental injury. It's not attacking. I've been bitten by a dog who was not taught the proper boundries when playing.. and whose to say that your dog will never accidently nip or scratch you unintentionally?

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

I'm sorry, but you need to educate yourself on captive breeding then.

And again, originally keeping dogs was selfish.

 
it would be te owners problem. I stand by that I would not live near or next to a animal of that size. They can turn, and can turn quick enoughthat a owner can and they do get killed. Dogs wasnt selfish when they were domesticated, they were a very importent hunting and guarding tool way way wayback inthe day.
 
yea the problem is people dont all socialize their dogs. majority do though. And dogs are not a illegal pet, you do not have to go through alot to get a dog, like you would a big cat. I know enough to belive it is wrong to keep big cats, and that is how I feel. It is not fair to keep them in a cage (big cage or not), it is not fair. imo.

Tanks...
It's also HIGHLY unlikely that exotic animal bites get reported much...since they are likely to be on their own owner/caretaker who would likely avoid reporting it or report it as some other animal to avoid exposing that they had the pet, or lacked control of the pet.
 
Same reason many household dog bites go unreported..fear of losing the animal. Statistics are incredibly easy to skew and lie with and any person who's been in dogs or fought BSL knows that well.
 
Aery....
I am sorry you feel offended. Truly I am. I think you have helped many kids, just as zoo's have (btw zoo's do have programmes that do not involve being at the zoo)...but I do think that seeing a "tame" animal and then being told how it is wild and should not be a pet...while the person with the animal strokes and interacts with it...is confusing for a younger child at least...and might even challenge an older one "I can tame a Bobcat too!". I say that as a Mother...knowing my own kids and how they see the world...and how they take their cues from their elders.
 
(you don't allow the children to touch these animals BTW?)
 
Honestly...I don't think I've ever seen a keeper during zoo hours in all our visits there...doing more than cleaning feeding, or setting up enrichment activities...now at an AMUSEMENT park...Marine World for ex...I have seen plenty of horsing around with the tigers...and Las Vegas of course...and we all know how that ended up!
 
Why should you feel guilty? You choose to keep the animals you keep, and do with them what you feel is best, and I choose to not agree with it. And to believe enough captive animals of the same species exist in regulated zoos, to make owning them privately a choice I neither understand or endorse.
 
Again...no one here who has an opinion on the subject is going to change the others mind...fence sitters...perhaps.
Corvus has the issue firmly by the throat I think...and that keeps getting overlooked interestingly enough.

ORIGINAL: Aery

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

yea I know that some are released. But the ones that are sold as pets is just stupid IMO. People who fight to help AND release animals are great. People who BREED for PETS are dumb, and should have their animals taken away. A few years ago I was bored, and looked up exotic animals for sale. I cam across hundreds of sites with them for sale. All you have to do is pay them, and go pick them up, no questions asked. I assume those people are like BYB or the dog world. but even so,  it is that easy to get a tiger or lion or alligator.There should be very strict rules for this.   Do all you may, you wont convince me other wise.

I guess you didn't read my posts. I am against that type of breeding too, and those types of owners. I have tried to sit here and convince you that those of us who are responsible, and rescue these animals from dangerous situations, are not the bad ones. Yet you continued to corner me and my posts, so it seemed, saying to myself and k.m.a and others that we will never convince you otherwise.

I will step down from here, and if anyone has any real questions, I really do not mind answering them as best that I can, though I'm fairly certain I've covered just about everything possible with my posts.

I dontthinkt her is aything wrong with you helping them, that is great. My point is if people didnt own them and would leave them alone. There wouldnt need to be people helping re-home them. As humans we all love to own own and own things. We take to much from the wild. The land trees habitats for the animals and animals themselvs. We are a selfish breed of "animal". Its sad people cant just leave some things alone.

ORIGINAL: Aery

Tankstar, I was just pondering, did the website you go to happen to be gotpetsonline.com?

They have several listings for outlandish exotics that go beyond big cats, such as bears, zebra, etc. How credible they are, I do not know, but what I have seen in my lifetime, involving these animals, it would not surprise me if someone were actually selling a zebra sitting in their pasture.

 
I dont remember what website it was. it was a while ago. So I have no idea at all. Even looking at the website dosnt make me recall if it was it or not. It was about 3 years ago when I looked this all up.

ORIGINAL: k.m.a

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

ORIGINAL: Aery

and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

This just proves to me that you have little knowledge on captive breeding. There are indeed many animals who are bred in captivity and released into the wild in hopes of reproducing. You have been very misinformed to think otherwise.
Where releasing cannot be done, rescue people step in. Do not condemn them for their choice to help the animals that they know they can.

yea I know that some are released. But the ones that are sold as pets is just stupid IMO. People who fight to help AND release animals are great. People who BREED for PETS are dumb, and should have their animals taken away. A few years ago I was bored, and looked up exotic animals for sale. I cam across hundreds of sites with them for sale. All you have to do is pay them, and go pick them up, no questions asked. I assume those people are like BYB or the dog world. but even so,  it is that easy to get a tiger or lion or alligator.There should be very strict rules for this.   Do all you may, you wont convince me other wise.

Can you provide links to these sites?

 
No I cant provide links, it was a few years ago. I didnt save the links (atleast I dont remember) and if I did I wouldnt have them any way as this computer I have now is less then a year old.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar

ORIGINAL: k.m.a

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
yes I would feel bad for where it ends up, but thats the owners problem not mine, they chose to have a pet you shouldnt own at all. I didnt, and I wouldnt want it in my neighboorhood, period.

No, it wouldn't be. If the owner made the proper precautions that the animal did not get out, or any other thing could get in, then it would not be the owners fault at all. They made the proper precautions. You are at more danger to go out into a fair of people than to live next door to a properly enclosed exotic animal. If the circumstances were different and the animal was not properly enclosed, I would understand. But the majority of the time that simply is not true.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 

You can not say that there is more dog bites then exotic pet cats. dogs out number wild cats probably 1000 to 1 in a household ratio, it would be unfair to try and put them together. Thats like me saying canada has more smokers compared to a country like belize that only has a few hundred thousand residents, as opposed to canada that has about 30million. It isnt fair becuase the numbers dont even come close.

Does that excuse the dogs' danger to us as human beings? As much as I love dogs, .. dogs are usually allowed free run of the house, are often allowed to run outside without a leash (off-leash parks) a good majority of the dog owners do not know how to care properly for their dog, thus no socialization.. whereas exotics are never kept outside uncontrolled (unless under irresponsible ownership), are kept behind two layers of fence, the enclosure fence and the perimeter so the public cannot come in contact with this animal, and there are a ton of great owners who properly socialize their exotic animal.

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
yes they would rather run then face you in the wild, that is why they shouldnt be kept, they would be happier if the knew what wild was. Exactly my point about being attacked, then will attack and not even know it, they could be playing but their play is to rough. I know with my dog, I can bend down with out getting bit, and I know I wont get attacked by him when playing. It is unnacceptable to keep them as pets. period.

Of course they would, .. if you lived in a certain habitat and haven't seen humans on a regular basis you would run too. And that is not attacking, that is difference. When you own such an animal that exceeds 300 pounds, you do not engage in roughplay when it was young, and simply take the precautions to prevent a accidental injury. It's not attacking. I've been bitten by a dog who was not taught the proper boundries when playing.. and whose to say that your dog will never accidently nip or scratch you unintentionally?

ORIGINAL: Tankstar 
and breeding them in captivity does nothing for the wild ones at all. The captive breed ones will never be wild, ever.

Dont try to convince me otherwise.

It is cruel and selfish.

I'm sorry, but you need to educate yourself on captive breeding then.

And again, originally keeping dogs was selfish.

it would be te owners problem. I stand by that I would not live near or next to a animal of that size. They can turn, and can turn quick enoughthat a owner can and they do get killed. Dogs wasnt selfish when they were domesticated, they were a very importent hunting and guarding tool way way wayback inthe day.

yea the problem is people dont all socialize their dogs. majority do though. And dogs are not a illegal pet, you do not have to go through alot to get a dog, like you would a big cat. I know enough to belive it is wrong to keep big cats, and that is how I feel. It is not fair to keep them in a cage (big cage or not), it is not fair. imo.

Um, you need to understand behaviour and have common sense. Understanding behaviour,.. again.. realizing: "I trust my tiger, but I know that I can see that playful look in his eye he might hurt me". Not only that, tigers are not the only exotic cat. Some exotic cats, like the geofferys are smaller than even the domestic cat. Their sizes range 5pounds to 600 pounds. There are qualified owners for both ends of the spectrums. They do not pose a threat if they are properly maintained and if the owner is knowledgeable. Granted, accidents happen. As it does with EVERYTHING. You cannot make the world a perfect safe haven.
 
And uh, .. dogs were domesticated for selfish reasons. They were domesticated to be trained to fit peoples needs, to make their jobs easier.. How can you not find that selfish?

Corvus
I have wondered also with the folks who love and want to have these animals around so much...why they choose to own...and not rehab exsitant wild critters? Those that you can release after their time in your care?
 
That to me has always seemed truly interesting and a way to actually make a difference in the individual animals life. You could help MORE thruout your career as well...instead of one or two,...maybe hundreds...who knows? I bet Steve Irwin would approve of that lol!
 
The critters I suppose are less exotic...here it'd be what...raptors, raccoons, possums, squirrels, bats, deer, coyotes maybe..etc.
 
I always thought that'd be a great thing to do.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Tanks...
It's also HIGHLY unlikely that exotic animal bites get reported much...since they are likely to be on their own owner/caretaker who would likely avoid reporting it or report it as some other animal to avoid exposing that they had the pet, or lacked control of the pet.
 
Same reason many household dog bites go unreported..fear of losing the animal. Statistics are incredibly easy to skew and lie with and any person who's been in dogs or fought BSL knows that well.
 
Aery....
I am sorry you feel offended. Truly I am. I think you have helped many kids, just as zoo's have (btw zoo's do have programmes that do not involve being at the zoo)...but I do think that seeing a "tame" animal and then being told how it is wild and should not be a pet...while the person with the animal strokes and interacts with it...is confusing for a younger child at least...and might even challenge an older one "I can tame a Bobcat too!". I say that as a Mother...knowing my own kids and how they see the world...and how they take their cues from their elders.
 
(you don't allow the children to touch these animals BTW?)
 
Honestly...I don't think I've ever seen a keeper during zoo hours in all our visits there...doing more than cleaning feeding, or setting up enrichment activities...now at an AMUSEMENT park...Marine World for ex...I have seen plenty of horsing around with the tigers...and Las Vegas of course...and we all know how that ended up!
 
Why should you feel guilty? You choose to keep the animals you keep, and do with them what you feel is best, and I choose to not agree with it. And to believe enough captive animals of the same species exist in regulated zoos, to make owning them privately a choice I neither understand or endorse.
 
Again...no one here who has an opinion on the subject is going to change the others mind...fence sitters...perhaps.
Corvus has the issue firmly by the throat I think...and that keeps getting overlooked interestingly enough.

An educated handler understand their mistakes when bitten. Usually, a dog owner doesn't report the bite, and just send the dog to the pound. There's a difference there.

The kids do not pet the animals. I do however allow them to touch one spot on the animal, and that is it. I explain to them that they are often killed because they are soft, or because their skin is tough and good for bootmaking. Then go well into detail on why it is wrong.
I also go into very detailed reasons why owning these animals is such a huge challenge, and why the process of getting one is just as great. I explain that is is best left to the professionals who are involved in rescue and rehabilitation. If they choose to become rehabbers or rescuers, more power to them, we need more of them in this world.

Not everyone in the world can be changed. That's not my intention, if that were to happen, everyone would own these animals. That's not the goal of rescuers. We are not fighting to keep these animals as pets. But those who need us deserve our attention.

We will have to agree to disagree. We do not live in a perfect world, and this is a real current issue that is going on. I will not look back and wonder why things can't be different. I'll just keep working forward. That's what everyone should be doing. Not bashing those who own these animals, and especially when conclusions are jumped to, which is what seems to have happened here in response to most of my posts after I shared that I had once owned a Caracal. I thought I was clear about why I had him, and why I have most of my exotics (95% of them). I guess I was not.

I do however, sincerely hope that despite the fact that you do not want to see these animals in cages, that you donate as much as you can to sanctuaries. They are in need of so much that is not being given to them. The animals are the ones who suffer.




By the way, those of you who see ads for tigers, etc...note whether or not they say what type of tiger it is. The only places who own purebred Bengal and Siberian Tigers are zoos, they keep their lines extremely clean and pure. After they are done with them, they go to sanctuaries where they are not usually adopted out and sometimes altered so they cannot reproduce due to their old age. And also, report them. Chances are, they say they have a USDA license, which means nothing in the owning and breeding of big cats. Absolutely nothing.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Corvus
I have wondered also with the folks who love and want to have these animals around so much...why they choose to own...and not rehab exsitant wild critters? Those that you can release after their time in your care?
 
That to me has always seemed truly interesting and a way to actually make a difference in the individual animals life. You could help MORE thruout your career as well...instead of one or two,...maybe hundreds...who knows? I bet Steve Irwin would approve of that lol!
 
The critters I suppose are less exotic...here it'd be what...raptors, raccoons, possums, squirrels, bats, deer, coyotes maybe..etc.
 
I always thought that'd be a great thing to do.

I do some native rehab.
Most of the exotics I own are older, they would not survive in the wild. The rest are you common exotics (gliders, ferrets, hedgies, etc) that you just don't grab up and release. That is just opening up horrible things for the animals.

Rehabbing takes such a strong person though. It's a shame that there are so many strong people who dedicate themselves to things they are unhappy with, some even want to be rehabbers so badly but think it's some outrageous goal. I really wish those people would get up and get out there, they could make such a difference, more than they will ever know.
Just one animal makes a difference, it doesn't have to be hundreds, though that is nice. Every little bit helps.

Ahh I see this is good to know.
When I was young we had a "zoo guy" come by...he did not allow anyone to get close to anything with teeth or claws (welll dangerous ones lol!)....I believe we got the hind end of a Tortoise...a HUGE frog of some kind (nasty)...and a closer look...but not within "hair throwing" distance of a Tarantula. Also did the touch tank at the Monterey Bay AQ,....very cool.
 
I went and read our cities codes on this...it was really an interesting read. I think others here should go look if they're bored or don't already know...interesting to see what's allowed and what's not and try to guess why lol.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Ahh I see this is good to know.
When I was young we had a "zoo guy" come by...he did not allow anyone to get close to anything with teeth or claws (welll dangerous ones lol!)....I believe we got the hind end of a Tortoise...a HUGE frog of some kind (nasty)...and a closer look...but not within "hair throwing" distance of a Tarantula. Also did the touch tank at the Monterey Bay AQ,....very cool.

I have two tarantulas...I know hair throwing all too well. Today was just one of those days, ironically, LOL.
And after that, one of my Pugs knocked over a potted plant. And after that, my husband forgot to lock the glider cage, and it took forever to find one of them.
After that I burned some gravy. LOL

I squeeze in as much time as possible to discuss exotics. Just one of my passions. My poor husband is at the mercy of it.[]

Aery...I am blunt (or insert B word of your choice lol)...I again apologize to you for offending you.
 
I too have burned gravy.....so we can at least agree that...that indeed, sucks hippo bottoms []

Do not apologize, please. I admire views of people who are genuinely concerned, and it only took me until my last few posts to realize that perhaps people were misunderstanding what I do, or that I was unclear.

And yes, burning gravy sucks, and is very stinky!!!

"Ma burned the gravy again..."


The animals hate it.

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

Also, $600 is VERY overpriced for a tumor removal, anywhere. Just another testament to how difficult proper, reasonably priced vet care is to find for these animals. []

I spent $300 for the same surgery for one of my hairless.  A lot of money to spend on a $5 rat, but she was worth it!