Straw Poll

I have to make a comment here. For someone who has battled various illnesses their whole life, getting insurance without the benefit of a large pool type policy (as through a job) is just about impossible.  The premiums alone are through the roof, and the pre-existing clause is usually a two year period. Which means you pay your premiums, as well as your own medical care cost for those two years. For someone who is middle-class - it isn't even thinkable. It amounts to more than rent, groceries, basic utility and phone bills alone. I know, I've priced it and almost fainted. And we don't have kids, a car payment or high car insurances rates, or a cell phone and cable TV.  The premiums are even higher for young women of child bearing years by the way.

When the plant my DH worked at closed in 2000, we lost our insurance. Even when we did have it, we couldn't afford to be sick - how's that for irony?  Then in 2001, I was diagnosed diabetic, and just my monthly medicines were around $400 a month. DH's new job offered no insurance, and we earned just enough to not qualify for help, but no where near enough to pay for my needed medical care.  Finding doctors to treat you when you don't have insurance isn't easy either. And when you do, their billing department treats you like thieves when you try to work out a payment plan. We have never lived above our means, and have always tried to put money in savings when we could. But our lovely health system requires you to have no funds at all to get any help.  We had to cash out his 401k (and pay the penalty) to have money to pay medical bills.  By the time we were down to filling for government help - and they don't make it easy for honest people needing help - we were lucky enough to find a job that offers benefits. But we still had a year of paying premiums with no coverage for pre-existing. Factor in the increased cost of gas and groceries, etc, and even my budgeting and frugal talents are stressed.

For those who haven't ever experienced what it is like to not have health insurance, and need it, you don't realize just how cruel the system is.  I was raised to be honest, but when you need help from the government, that gets you screwed.  I find it highly ironic and beyond irritating that those who try to fend for themselves, get the short end of the stick when it gets down to the nitty gritty and they NEED help.  Especially when you see others around you getting not only food stamps and medicaid - while driving a very new, very nice car, etc. 

What's even more irritating is the cost of my doctor's visits now that I have insurance.  Same doctor, same service: no ins. - $75; w/ins. - $125.  Why?  Why do they get away with charging more just because I have insurance?  It is ridiculous, and unnecessary!!!!  I believe this practice factor's into the higher insurance premiums. That, and idiots that think it is okay to send $400 worth of insulin by regular mail instead of overnight carrier like they are supposed to, so that when I get it, it is unusable.  Talk about sickening to have to put 3 months worth of insulin in the garbage after all those of years of struggling to pay for it out of our own pocket.  And the responsible party?  They shrug it off and say it is no big deal, we don't have to pay for it. Ummm, yes we do, as seen by the increase in health insurance premiums.

I am not advocating a national health care system. I don't think it is feasible either. But I am advocating that our government, insurance companies, and doctor's get their collective heads out of their money grubbing a$$es and make health care affordable for the masses.

Just my two cents worth!

edited: spelling typos

and doctor's get their collective heads out of their money grubbing a$$es and make health care affordable for the masses.

 
next time you see a doctor ask him how much he/she pays in liability insurance. these days they wouldn't be making squat if they didn't charge so much. blame it on petty lawsuits.

Why do they get away with charging more just because I have insurance?

Have you asked your office why this is?  Have you called your insurance co. and asked them?  I would.  The answer lies with the insurance co., believe me.

But I am advocating that our government, insurance companies, and doctor's get their collective heads out of their money grubbing a$$es and make health care affordable for the masses.

I'm telling you it's not the doctors.  They are only reimbursed a set amount from insurance companies.  Think of some people that cost X amount of dollars to run tests on, use supplies on, etc...vs. the patient that doesn't use as many resources.  They get the same amount reimbursed for both type patients. 

Gone are the days of "cash and carry" medicine.  When I was young, a visit to our family doctor cost a set amount.  We paid it right then and there.  No insurance co. covered ANY doctor office visits.  Some countries still practice medicine by this rule.  Cash and carry, period.  You don't have the money for an epidural, you aren't getting one.

Our healthcare system eats the cost of MANY people in this country that can't pay.  They are treated, as they should be, but no one will ever see a dime of that money.  And, since it's a business of sorts, those unpaid costs have to be figured into other areas.  If not, hospitals would be bankrupt and you'd have no where to go for care. 

As it is, many states are losing good, qualified doctors due to high malpractice insurance rates. I am very concerned about this trend.  Will there be a good doctor available in the future to even go to?? How would you like to pay upwards of $200,000/year in insurance premiums?  On top of school loans that total in the $100,000's, a mortage, car payment, etc.....It's not a life I'd want to live. 

In my state of PA, starting salaries for new OB/GYN's are in the low $100,000 range.  Not much considering they have whopping student loans, are on-call and have to deal with ridiculous lawsuits by people trying to make a buck.  Not a real appealing occupation to me.  In fact, we are in the midst of a physician shortage.  People have realized that going to medical school for 4 yrs. after undergrad 4 yrs, then tack on another 4 yr. of residency, or more depending on the specialty, isn't enticing anymore.  The salaries don't begin to justify the education, liability they face and horrible hours of work.  The nursing shortage has been going on for years and now includes doctors.  I think this is disturbing considering we're all living longer and need care.  Will it be there??

When you are on the other end of the stick as a patient, I'm sure it looks like it's all doctor driven costs.  I just want to make it clear that it's not.    

ORIGINAL: Roxie865


Those darn liberals also want to raise the minimum wage.  How dare they.  Isn't it better for people to suffer as they get by on each paycheck?  Why should be help struggling families?  Oops ... I slipped into a Republican's train of thought.     

Actually raising minumum wage would hurt the lower class because employers arn't going to pay more than someone is worth. So if they raise minumum wage to $20 then anyone who doesn't work hard enough, or smart enough or whatever (isn't *worth* enough to the employer) are going to get laid off. They may have been worth $15 or $5, but not $20, if they did hire them the employer would be losing money.   Why spend money on someone who isn't worth is when they could just hire an illagal imagrint and pay them penance? 

I am not advocating a national health care system. I don't think it is feasible either. But I am advocating that our government, insurance companies, and doctor's get their collective heads out of their money grubbing a$$es and make health care affordable for the masses.

Im really sorry you went through this and it always feels better to have someone to blame, but your blame is misplaced!

As mastiff already pointed out, malpractice insurance just about bankrupts many physicians driving them to work for huge HMO's and leave private practice. for a surgeon malpractice is between 35-200 thousand dollars a year depending on what state you live in. We don't really get to bargan for our fees, it is decided for us as you can see in my prior post. If a client came it to see you and said "nope, I"m only going to pay you $x, not your requested fee" You would kick them out right. Well we don't have that option. The insurance companies tell us what we are worth, I think I should decide what I'm worth

for a surgeon malpractice is between 35-200 thousand dollars a year depending on what state you live in.

 
I just happen to live in the highest malpractice area of the country.  We have lost many good doctors in A to jump across the bridge and set up shop in NJ.  They have no choice in the matter. 
 
I am all for capping lawsuit amounts, because again, I live in the highest malpractice award area of the country as well.  No one should be getting millions of dollars for frivilous lawsuits that caused no harm, or for outcomes that were due to anything other than negligence.  Many outcomes in OB are mother nature driven.  It is what it is.  But, you get the person that gives birth to a genetically defected baby and they immediately feel the need to sue.  For what?  They always can find some lawyer to take the case.  Going to depositions is not fun.  Being made to feel like you are the worst person on the planet for doing your job is not fun.  Now, people sue everybody who ever came in contact with the patient.  This includes me.  I may have just checked her in, wrote a note and went home.  I still have to be deposed and go through all that.  It sucks and we need legislation to change this.  Problem is, many of the big insurance co.s and HMO's have their hands in the government as well. 
 
At any rate, it's a mess and we need elected officials that will stand up and make change.   

I am not advocating a national health care system. I don't think it is feasible either. But I am advocating that our government, insurance companies, and doctor's get their collective heads out of their money grubbing a$$es and make health care affordable for the masses.

I know for those of you in the medical field, you don't think I should have lumped doctors in with the insurance companies. But, just like the ones who spunge off of the system, the mass of stupid lawsuits, etc., I do feel that they are part of the problem - and need to be part of the solution.  My blame is not misplaced, because it takes all players in a problem to fix it.

I understand about the cost of school, liability insurance, cost of covering a business - believe me I do.  But when you are turned down time and time again by doctors for not having insurance, and then treated like trash and thieves because you ask for payment plans - you tend to get a bit cynical.  Especially when I see the discrepancies in prices. And I know all about the "with insurance paying higher fees to cover for those without". Did I say Cynical? Your darn tootin' I am! I am the middle-class that needs the help, and can't get it no matter how hard we bang our heads on the wall.

It just comes back to we need a good health care plan for our nation. Can one person running for president with that as part of their platform implement that change if elected? Only if both political parties quit playing the party card, and all parties (insurance companies, health care companies, providers, etc) involved decide to make sacrifices for the better good of the people of this nation. 

I don't vote party lines, and I don't care if the next president is Democrat or Repulican. It should boil down to who can do the best job, has the best ideas, etc.  On the OP's original post, of that list, right now I would only vote for Obama. Why? because he is new enough to maybe have some fresh ideas.

ORIGINAL: Aina

ORIGINAL: Roxie865


Those darn liberals also want to raise the minimum wage.  How dare they.  Isn't it better for people to suffer as they get by on each paycheck?  Why should be help struggling families?  Oops ... I slipped into a Republican's train of thought.     

Actually raising minumum wage would hurt the lower class because employers arn't going to pay more than someone is worth. So if they raise minumum wage to $20 then anyone who doesn't work hard enough, or smart enough or whatever (isn't *worth* enough to the employer) are going to get laid off. They may have been worth $15 or $5, but not $20, if they did hire them the employer would be losing money.   Why spend money on someone who isn't worth is when they could just hire an illagal imagrint and pay them penance? 

And you obviously don't know what's going on with it, which is typical of a Republican.  Raising the minimum wage would never hurt the lower or middle class families.  That's a silly idea.

They're not raising the minimum wage to $20, Aina.  Not in the next two years, that is.  The goal is $7.75, I think.  Just a little more than it is now. 

I have nothing against the Mexican immigrants, so long as they are here legally.  However, it's easy to pay well below the minimum wage to them, because they'll work for less. 

And how do you determine the value of an employee?  Value is subjective.  My idea of someone's value will probably be different than yours.  That's not a fair way to pay people when they get minimum wage.  It's a better system when the income is in the upper brackets.

Cry me a river. You're self employed because you choose to be self employed. If you are going to whine about paying your own health insurance, why not whine about paying self employment tax, which, I believe, amounts to like 15% of your income. If you are educated, you most certainly can get a job with benefits. You just chose not to.

 
Yep, but here is a newsflash, since 2005 all healthcare paid by self employed people is 100% deductable......
 
I am sure the accountant has told this to the respective poster.

And how do you determine the value of an employee? Value is subjective. My idea of someone's value will probably be different than yours. That's not a fair way to pay people when they get minimum wage. It's a better system when the income is in the upper brackets.

 
How do you determine one's value as a worker?
 
In general, I repeat in general, people who work in minimum wage jobs don't have higher education.
 
If you start jacking up the minimum wage to some outragous number you are looking at higher unemployment.Companies will just make do with less workers, happens all the time.

Dad is a small business owner, so he doesn't get insurance through a corporation. And let me tell you -- Bush doesn't give a hoot about my dad or any other actual small business owner.

 
Yes, he did a favor, he signed in the bill, all self employed insurance is 100% deductable...............

ORIGINAL: Roxie865

Raising the minimum wage would never hurt the lower or middle class families.  That's a silly idea.

 
LMAO.  Don't they even teach VERY BASIC economics in school anymore?
 
Let me ask you this.  If McDonalds raises their entry level wage to say, $10 an hour, are you under the impression that they wouldn't also have to raise their prices?

ORIGINAL: Roxie865

ORIGINAL: Aina

ORIGINAL: Roxie865


Those darn liberals also want to raise the minimum wage.  How dare they.  Isn't it better for people to suffer as they get by on each paycheck?  Why should be help struggling families?  Oops ... I slipped into a Republican's train of thought.     

Actually raising minumum wage would hurt the lower class because employers arn't going to pay more than someone is worth. So if they raise minumum wage to $20 then anyone who doesn't work hard enough, or smart enough or whatever (isn't *worth* enough to the employer) are going to get laid off. They may have been worth $15 or $5, but not $20, if they did hire them the employer would be losing money.   Why spend money on someone who isn't worth is when they could just hire an illagal imagrint and pay them penance? 

And you obviously don't know what's going on with it, which is typical of a Republican.  Raising the minimum wage would never hurt the lower or middle class families.  That's a silly idea.

They're not raising the minimum wage to $20, Aina.  Not in the next two years, that is.  The goal is $7.75, I think.  Just a little more than it is now. 

I have nothing against the Mexican immigrants, so long as they are here legally.  However, it's easy to pay well below the minimum wage to them, because they'll work for less. 

And how do you determine the value of an employee?  Value is subjective.  My idea of someone's value will probably be different than yours.  That's not a fair way to pay people when they get minimum wage.  It's a better system when the income is in the upper brackets.

$20 was just what someone else used on a diferent board.
Value is subjective, subjective to the employer. So if the employer says that they arn't worth enough, they are fired. Or at least thats what my my employer grandfather says, and my business and economic prof dad too.  Oh yeah, another thing my dad says "Life isn't fair, get over it!"
Now, I can't really discuss this at the moment because I have a party to go to, but Jesus was right when he said "The poor will always be with you" It is a basic law of economics, no matter how high the poor's income is. Maybe Billy can explain.

ORIGINAL: Aina
"The poor will always be with you" It is a basic law of economics, no matter how high the poor's income is. Maybe Billy can explain.

 
It is basic economics.  In any business, the cost of labor to produce a product or deliver a service must be less than a certain percentage of sales.  Usually, this number is around 50%, but it is often significantly less, depending on the operating margin a business has.  Let's use a very simple example.
 
You work at one of those quick oil change places.  Minimum wage, in our hypothetical example, is $10 an hour.  It takes one man hour to change oil in a car.  You are paid minimum wage and you work alone.  The cost of an oil change where you work is $30 so labor represents 33% of sales ($10/$30).  So, what we see is you have to work 3 hours to pay to have your own oil changed.
 
Now our hero, Hillary Clinton, is elected President.  She raises the minimum wage to $20 an hour.  The basic economics of your business didn't change.   Labor can still represent no more than 33% of sales, so you are forced to raise the price of your oil changes to $60.  You doubled your wages, but you still have to work 3 hours to pay for an oil change.
 
That is a bit of an oversimplification perhaps, but it is a place to start.  []
 

Higher wages mean higher prices, it's as simple as that.
 
The biggest example would be the car industry, the Union wages are way too high to be competitive. Union states like my homestate Michigan have taken a big hit.
If you want that kind of economy, then keep raising the minimum wage!