Straw Poll

Where I live the county provides healthcare if you fall into a certain income bracket.
 
The name of the game here is, work for cash, and try to keep your income as low as possible so you can receive the benefit.
I know a couple like that.........2 car household, cable, cell phones, drinking and rec. drug use........[:@]
 
 

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada
I have found healthcare in Canada to be not too bad. The waiting times are generally not as bad as they are rumoured to be, depending on the procedure of course.

 
Not too bad compared to what?  And if your system is so good, why do rich Canadians come to the US for health care?  Or, is that just a rumor too?

Hillary Clinton--not thrilled with her, but she's better than Guiliani
Barak Obama--I'd definately vote for him
John Kerry--still better than Guiliani
Rudy Guiliani--not if my life depended on it
Mitt Romney--don't know who he is, but I bet he's better than Guiliani
John Edwards--he's OK, but I'd rather have Obama

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada

If any of these middle class folks smoke, dirnk, do drugs, buy new cars every 5 years, buy cd's and dvd's and big screens, eat out more than once a week, own cell phones, etc....I'd be far, FAR less sympathetic to their plight.

Agreed.

I have found healthcare in Canada to be not too bad. The waiting times are generally not as bad as they are rumoured to be, depending on the procedure of course.

Not according to another Canadian on a horse board I go to.

[linkhttp://infozonenews.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=2]http://infozonenews.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=2[/link]

[linkhttp://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/44/173.html]http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/44/173.html[/link]

The way a lot of businesses get out of paying benefits is by not hiring anyone for a full  40 hr. work week.  If someone is desperate for a job, they're going to take the 35+ hrs. a week, but there won't be any benefits for doing that particular job. A lot of places will hire two people instead of one, and each one will have a 4 to 6 hr. day, or one person will work 7 or 7-1/2 hrs.
 
Joyce

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

ORIGINAL: probe1957

Where my problem comes in is with the trailer trash types who are just too lazy or stupid to provide for themselves and expect me to help.

a fellow i work with and i are starting to form the opinion that people like this are far from stupid. 1) they have figured out a way to work the system to the max. to their benefit. 2) unlike you and i, they have figured out a way to live a lifestyle they are happy with without putting forth the effort to either work or contribute back to society in any meaningful way. 3) they realize there are enough people in the government to feel sorry for them so they never have to change. 4) their benefits keep increasing while hard working people see their pensions and company paid benefits go away.

stupid? they may just be genius.

Uggh! I have an uncle who does that. He lays around like a lazy bum and my grandma gives him whatever he wants. She feels sorry for him because he is dyslexic. I say, "get over it! Lots of millionaires are dylexic too" If a 52 year old, healthy man can't take care of himself then there is a problem. But he will continue to leech off my grandmom until grandma dies and the inheratance is devided up.  Smart idea, but annoying to the rest of the kids and grandbabies who hardly get anything. 
I like the bible's approach "you don't work, you don't eat" Excluding those who truely can't work and children.

Yeah, you have to wonder what anyone likes about the concept of socialized health care. For sure, there is nothing free about it.

I think people are under the impression that everyone is taken care of.  However, it's not in a timely fashion, and if you need a specialist or want to choose your own doc or hospital...forget it!  National healthcare is only great for those who never need it.  Healthy, young, disease free people I'm sure have no problems with it. 

I know that if I had cancer or needed cardiac surgery, you better believe that I want to choose my own specialist and be treated immediately. 

In this country, no one is turned away from a hospital due to lack of insurance.   This is why our ERs are full of family medicine crap like sore throats and earraches.  Many hospitals are in financial trouble due to the burden of nonpaying patients.  They are reinbursed by medicare and medicaid to a point, but not nearly enough. 

In my unit, if a mom gives birth to a premature, sick baby, that baby can rack up millions in bills in the NICU.  The hospital will never see that money.  No 16 yr. old uneducated, unemployed kid with a sickly baby will ever come up with that.  It most likely gets artially covered by other insurers down the line. 

It's a screwed up system, but I don't have the answer. 
  

I don't think you will find many Canadians, save for one on this board, who will postulate that their health care system is relatively unproblematic.
 
Interesting article, Karyn.

They have to treat you when you walk into an ER, but that doesn't mean they also don't bill you when it's over

 
the fact still remains that the care is available. you think i dont pay for my insurance?
 
everyone should have to pay for services rendered to them, if it were free the quality of the care would get so low you wouldn't want it either. hopefully we will never get to experience this though, so you will probably never truely understand why i dont like the idea of it.

Not according to another Canadian on a horse board I go to.

 
Like I said, it depends on the procedure you need. No one's saying the service is as good as private healthcare, but you make sacrifices for this type of system.
 

Not too bad compared to what?  And if your system is so good, why do rich Canadians come to the US for health care?  Or, is that just a rumor too?

 
In many cases rich people will not be happy with what the rest of the general population receives. It doesn't mean it's a horrible system, it just means that  rich people have the means for something better so why not? Clearly private healthcare is 'better' if you can afford it, but I don't mind the fact that we extend the same benefits to everyone regardless of financial status. Rich people also send their kids to private schools, it doesn't *necessarily* mean that the public system sucks, but they have the money to spend, so....

Hillary: Yikes. Thank heavens this is unlikely.
Obama: Wouldn't vote for him, but at the moment wouldn't cry if he became POTUS. Seems nice. Edwards as vice would be death for him - too young a ticket and I sure would NOT like to see Edwards a heartbeat away, etc.
Rudy: Liked him during 9/11. I think that's important. Would prefer another choice. Or a really strong vice like Condy.
Milk who?
Edwards: I'd prefer Hillary. Way. Shallow, two-faced, weak-kneed, giggling sorry excuse for a leader - he screwed North Carolina over, pushed a really effective senator out of office, and gave us NOTHING for it - he visited NC fewer times than GWB during the election!!! I have no desire to get the same treament at the national level, thank you.
Rice: I'd love to see it. Ain't gonna happen. I wish she had some experience in elective office but I don't know what she'd want to do at this point to get it. Certainly this won't happen before 2008, however. She'd be a terrific Vice.
McCain: Isn't he like 100 years old and periodically has cancer surgery? Only if he picked Condy as vice.

I agree with Billy mostly except I do think it's time for a woman pres. The men have gotten too weak-kneed and clannish and can't seem to get anything done. I'd like to see America's Margaret Thatcher come forward. I thought Dole might be close (at least as Vice), but that kind of bombed. [8|]

Mastiff said
"In this country, no one is turned away from a hospital due to lack of insurance. This is why our ERs are full of family medicine crap like sore throats and earraches. Many hospitals are in financial trouble due to the burden of nonpaying patients. They are reinbursed by medicare and medicaid to a point, but not nearly enough. "

Definately needs repeating, It is actually illegal to turn someone in need and even if you could, we wouldn't because we love medicine and love to take care of people People also don't realize if they went to an urgent care center, or just a plain old doctors outpatient office, they would pay much less too for these small problems (earache, stomachache, etc). It's nice to hear people say our services are important and should be reimbursed. You would not believe how many people believe my care should be their right!

One example: For an appendectomy (surgery to remove appendix) Surgeons get reimbursed around $150. This is emergency surgery, takes 1-2 hours, requires doctor coming in from home, spending time with patient, operating, taking care of patient after, and 90 days post op care if there are any problems. Does that sound fair? Remember this is someone who has trained at least 13 years past highschool. I pay my hair stylist more then this for a hour cut and color

Interesting thread. Now here is my biggest most heartfelt issue. Tax breaks. I did taxes for 2 years and let me tell you these people work the system, have 4 kids, never get married, each claims 2 and work the min required to get the best max on Earned Income?
 
So you have a family of 6 making roughly 25k a year, getting food stamps, medical care and housing, they have it all, yet work for little and then at the end of the year get back as much as $4500 each? I actually had a woman tell me when she found out that one of her children could not be claimed the next year say "time to have another kid"???
 
Yet I, the full time wife, with a disabled husband and no children, could get NO assistance from the government when I was unemployed for 3 months, nada, zip, zero. Reason, between SSI and my unemployment we made to much. Bite me.
 
And yes I know they changed the laws last year, but geesh.
 
I vote for George Carlin.
 
Dawn