Straw Poll

I also know someone in Canada that has been turned away by many docs there simply because her sons problem is too difficult and time consuming to treat...which they do thanks to the Nat'l Health system they have there. Same thing w/appts too...months and months down the line you can get a special service....not when you need it. Bad IMO...
 

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_dogs_mom
"no insurance, no treatment."

Oh please.  My worthless stepson was hospitalized about a year ago.  He had no insurance.  He was treated and he now has a $15,000 bill that he can't pay to prove it.  So spare me the "no insurance, no treatment" gibberish.  It just ain't true.

i cannot speak for others but in my state it is easy to recieve healthcare without insurance. for one there is medicaid, most providers here accept it without prejudice. two, if you are un-insured most offices offer a sliding-fee, which basically is a discounted price based on what your income is. three, emergency rooms are not legally allowed to turn people away because of no insurance, they MUST treat you.

i am of the opinion that if one cannot manage to obtain healthcare, with/or without insurance, in our country, they simply are not trying hard enough. i understand some people may not be so educated on how to go about it, but it is there for them if they choose to figure it out. the health department is very good at referals and is an obvious start.

(spelling edit)

Yeah, right try seeing a doctor in his office without having an insurance card or a valid credit card.  I think most people without insurance support end up letting it go until they get sicker and then their only choice is to visit the ER.  ER can not turn you away without seeing, assessing, and then treat.  Some without insurance support automatically go to the ER instead of non emergency care…and this is what contributes to the rising costs of healthcare. 
 
When I was unemployed for over a year, I could not afford my former company#%92s cobra plan, too expensive.  I got insurance for $100/month but the deductible was like $10,000.  I was lucky to have funds available to cover the $100/month.
 
I think health care for people without insurance support is provided by each county.  The county is funded through property taxes.  My property tax bill has gone through the roof in recent years.  What I object to the most is paying for the health care for indigents and also the school system for the children…I have none.  I also have no use for the public library.  Medicare is supported by the state through state taxes.  These responsibilities of indigents, county hospitals, school systems, libraries, and medicare should be at the federal level AND without increasing taxes.

ORIGINAL: probe1957

And Bradley, while we're on the subject of worthless stepsons, mine called the other day.  He knocked up his girlfriend.  We are delighted.  [:@]

my stepson is back with his baby's mama. they kinda inadvertantly hinted at the fact that she might be pregnant again. how great!

i could write a book about the things that have been happening to those 2, but i would have to sell it as fiction.

edit: oh yeah... you forgot the a$$ whipping we doled out in granada. remember the clint eastwood movie (heartbreak ridge, i think)? it was longer than the actual war i believe.

Hilary... No. No more Clinton or Bush in White House. Sick of it.
Obama... Maybe.
Edwards... Maybe.
Kerry... Probably not.
Giuliani... No way in hell.
McCain... Maybe.
Rice... Again no way in hell.

Congrats, gramps.
 
Granada wasn't a war.  It was a training exercise.  It took longer to get there than it took to whip those Cubans.  []

I submit that people like this are not productive members of society. They have low level jobs or they would have health insurance. They have few resources or they would be able to afford health care. They are net tax takers rather than net tax payers. They are the weakest and least desirable among us. If people like this were animals, living in the wild, nature would take its course. I say, let nature take its course with them too. If you want to support them, fine. Just don't mandate that I do it. They had the same opportunity to provide for themselves that I have. Don't try to put the blame for them being losers on my shoulders.

 
So you agree with social Darwinism??
 
Going by what would happen to people in the 'wild' is silly, I mean people with poor eyesight, diabetes, etc would probably not survive either. But this isn't the wild, this is modern society where we have the money and health care advancements to help people overcome their weaknesses. And not everyone has the same opportunities you have. A person with down syndrome, or a physical disability, does not have those same opportunities. But I believe we should be obligated to help them get the same basic health care that we receive.

People on welfare are able to get medical treatment because they qualify for medic-aid.  It's the middle class, many having jobs that don't pay benefits, that are totally screwed.  And yes - they have to treat you if you have some life threatening condition.  But try getting in to see a doctor before the condition gets to that point.  Good luck!
 
Joyce

 

It's the middle class, many having jobs that don't pay benefits, that are totally screwed.

 
 
Sounds like to me then...the issue is the pay scale...not the health care availablity. Perhaps then a liveable wage would help these middle class folks. A liveable wage IMO, is what allows you to buy essentials, pay for a roof and food, childcare (perhaps with gov't help with this one), and afford health coverage offered thru your job or otherwise.
 
If any of these middle class folks smoke, dirnk, do drugs, buy new cars every 5 years, buy cd's and dvd's and big screens, eat out more than once a week, own cell phones, etc....I'd be far, FAR less sympathetic to their plight.

If any of these middle class folks smoke, dirnk, do drugs, buy new cars every 5 years, buy cd's and dvd's and big screens, eat out more than once a week, own cell phones, etc....I'd be far, FAR less sympathetic to their plight.

 
Agreed.
 
I have found healthcare in Canada to be not too bad. The waiting times are generally not as bad as they are rumoured to be, depending on the procedure of course.

They have to treat you when you walk into an ER, but that doesn't mean they also don't bill you when it's over. If you can't pay, well, that's why hospitals have collection departments. And they aren't nice about it, either. Hospitals are businesses just like any other and if they deliver a service, they require payment in full.

I spent a brief, terrifying time doing temp work at the same office my mom works at, which is a servicing center for sub-prime mortgages. They bought sub-prime loans from other banks and serviced them themsevles. Anyway, my job was to take all these folders with people's loan information in them and put them into a standardized order and format, since every bank has their own way of organizing things. Sub-prime mortgages are often made to people who have gone through a bankruptcy in the past, so most folders had bankruptcy info. And by far the top two reasons why people had to declare bankruptcy were divorce and medical bills. Thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills. If you get seriously ill and don't have insurance and don't qualify for Medicaid, you are pretty much hosed.

ORIGINAL: Scout in Canada
So you agree with social Darwinism??

 
I believe I could make a pretty effective argument supporting it, yes.  I am not sure I would have a major problem with culling people who have no hope of ever being anything but a drain on society and who have nothing to contribute to it.

this is modern society where we have the money and health care advancements to help people overcome their weaknesses.

 
We do?  Or are you advocating the redistribution of wealth wherein the have's take care of the have nots?
 

And not everyone has the same opportunities you have.

 
And you hope to change that by mitigating the outcome?  Yet, you call me "silly."  []
 

A person with down syndrome, or a physical disability, does not have those same opportunities.

 
I agree.  I have no problem assisting them.  But there are far more people drinking from the public trough for health care than JUST those who don't have the ability to do better.  Where my problem comes in is with the trailer trash types who are just too lazy or stupid to provide for themselves and expect me to help.
 

But I believe we should be obligated to help them get the same basic health care that we receive.

 
And that is fine.  You just keep it up there in the People's Republic of Canada where your health care system is perfect and your taxes are low.  As for the US, we don't want it.  That is why Hillary Care went down in flames here. 

ORIGINAL: probe1957

Where my problem comes in is with the trailer trash types who are just too lazy or stupid to provide for themselves and expect me to help.

a fellow i work with and i are starting to form the opinion that people like this are far from stupid. 1) they have figured out a way to work the system to the max. to their benefit. 2) unlike you and i, they have figured out a way to live a lifestyle they are happy with without putting forth the effort to either work or contribute back to society in any meaningful way. 3) they realize there are enough people in the government to feel sorry for them so they never have to change. 4) their benefits keep increasing while hard working people see their pensions and company paid benefits go away.

stupid? they may just be genius.

You may be on to something there, Brad.
 
I don't know if I ever mentioned it, but I have a worthless stepson.  I know you don't have a clue what it is like to have a worthless stepson but trust me, it ain't no picnic.  Instead of being motivated to work hard and earn money, he wants to minimize his expenses so he doesn't have to work as much, or at all.  Part of his plan is to find a woman with a house and a car so he can eliminate those from his expense structure too.  It is even better, in his mind, if this woman has a good job so she can buy him what toys he wants.
 
Maybe you're right.  I see him as worthless but maybe he is brilliant.