Straw Poll

Yes, Billy.  I think defending ourselves and our  territories is just about the only sane reason to go to war - unless maybe another country that is being attacked asks specifically for our help.  As for US interests in oil, you don't really think we're going to get any Iraqi oil, do ya? All we've managed to do is kill thousands of young  men and women, ours and theirs, and make ourselves more universally hated and an even bigger target than we were before. I don't think a woman would have put us in that position.
 
Joyce

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_dogs_mom
Yes, Billy.  I think defending ourselves and our  territories is just about the only sane reason to go to war - unless maybe another country that is being attacked asks specifically for our help. 

 
You've gone from the ONLY reason to ABOUT the only reason.  In another post or two, I will have you convinced that we should nuke any country that pisses us off.  []
 

As for US interests in oil, you don't really think we're going to get any Iraqi oil, do ya?

 
I do.  In fact, I think we get Iraqi oil every day.  But while we are on the subject, what would our oil situation look like if we hadn't gotten involved in Desert Storm?  Do you think the world is better off without the likes of Saddam Insane?
 

All we've managed to do is kill thousands of young  men and women, ours and theirs

 
We've killed MANY thousands of theirs, thank you very much.  That is kind of the objective of war, to kill more of your enemy faster than they kill you.  Pretty simple, really.
 

but she is so ugly I wouldn't vote for her either.

 
Wasn't Geena Davis a president in some recent TV show?
She'd win...or someone that looked like her...if the men use Billy's "ugly=no vote" criterium.
 
Maybe Janet Reno could run and we'd get the best of both worlds...a man in a woman-ish body....or is it a woman in a mannish body? who knows!
 
 

For sure [] I think Geena Davis for president would be a better choice than Arnold Schwarzenegger for Governor.
 
Joyce

Senators do not seem to do well in getting elected, last one being Kennedy. So if republicans put up Jeb, which is very likely, a Dem Senator will have hard time. I would like to see which US Rep enters.

 
Good point. The problem with Senatorial candidates is their voting records can be thrown in their face at every opportunity... show me a Senator with an immaculate voting record and I'll show you a flying pig.
 
Houndlove is correct about socialism... to read what it really is besides just an incorrectly used derogatory term for liberalism, look here - [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism[/link] . Believe it or not being "liberal" and being socialist are NOT the same at all.
 
As for how liberal I am, the answer is very. [] The reason I view H.Clinton as too conservative has mostly to do with her words & actions wrt to the Iraq war... from voting for the war and every step of the way through it she pretty much stuck to the Republican party lines and talking points about how well it was going, how the insurgency was weak, how we shouldn't pull our or set timetables, etc. One could argue that this was the beginning of her pandering to a wider audience in gearing up to the next presidential election but that doesn't excuse her in my view.

i am all for attacking other countries unprovoked provided we go ahead and conquer them and claim our "spoils of war". i hate to see us conquer a foreign army, and then try to give the country "back to the people" like we are doing them some big favor.

we may not be the best at alot of things anymore, but by god we are still the best a$$ kickers on the block when we want to be.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles
Maybe Janet Reno could run and we'd get the best of both worlds...a man in a woman-ish body....or is it a woman in a mannish body? who knows!

"that's not a woman! it's a man, man."

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Maybe Janet Reno could run and we'd get the best of both worlds...a man in a woman-ish body....or is it a woman in a mannish body? who knows!
 

 
There isn't enough beer in the US of A to motivate me to get that answer for you.  []

ORIGINAL: jones
Good point. The problem with Senatorial candidates is their voting records can be thrown in their face at every opportunity... show me a Senator with an immaculate voting record and I'll show you a flying pig.

 
Which is why I so hope the dems do nominate Hillary for POTUS.  She might be trying to appear more conservative, but she has a track record that will be interesting to see how she spins.

Believe it or not being "liberal" and being socialist are NOT the same at all.

 
There is some valid reason for the comparison.  Liberals and socialists wish to ensure equality of outcome while conservatives wish to ensure equal opportunity.

The reason I view H.Clinton as too conservative has mostly to do with her words & actions wrt to the Iraq war... One could argue that this was the beginning of her pandering to a wider audience in gearing up to the next presidential election but that doesn't excuse her in my view.

 
 
Everything Hillary says and everything Hillary does is due to political expediency.  She has no real conviction about anything that I can discern.

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

i am all for attacking other countries unprovoked provided we go ahead and conquer them and claim our "spoils of war". i hate to see us conquer a foreign army, and then try to give the country "back to the people" like we are doing them some big favor.

we may not be the best at alot of things anymore, but by god we are still the best a$$ kickers on the block when we want to be.

 
I completely agree.  We are the only super power left.  If we don't do it, second rate powers will.  Eventually, if we allow that, a second rate power might just become a super power.  Then we've got a real problem.
 
This country hasn't actually finished a war since God only knows when.  We should have turned right and whipped the Russians at the end of WWII.  Korea, at best a draw, but very costly in terms of American lives.  Then we have Vietnam.  Clearly a loss for us.  WTF were we doing there in the first place?  To stop the spread of communism?  Communism stopped itself, thanks, in large part, to Ronald Reagan and, in larger part to the inherent flaws within communism itself.
 
More recently, we have Desert Storm.  We should have removed Saddam from power then.  We should have marched right into Baghdad.  But we couldn't do that without inflicting lots of collateral damage.  Were we concerned about collateral damage when we bombed the snot out of Berlin?  No.  We bombed Berlin BECAUSE of the collateral damage it caused.
 
We don't have the stomach for war.  What a shame, as it is hard to fathom a more noble endeavor.
 
And Bradley, while we're on the subject of worthless stepsons, mine called the other day.  He knocked up his girlfriend.  We are delighted.  [:@]

In fact, I think we get Iraqi oil every day

 
yeah when can afford it.[8|]
 
 
i want to put my 2 cents in on the whole idea of a a national health system. having health insurance already, i HATE the idea. i have a freind that lives in england, her daughter was believed to have a brain tumor, she was scheduled to have an MRI, but couldn't get scheduled in until 4 months later...by then she could've been dead. it took so long because there it is first come first serve.
 
you can arguably say, everyone deserves the same quality of healthcare, and the right to recieve healthcare, but try to tell that to the woman with a sick 4 year old who is waiting in line behind hypochondriac's,  90+ yo's who have lived their life to near brimming, and people that in my opinion absoltly do not have 4 month's worth of precedence over a 4 year old in danger of losing her life.
 
i DO not want a national healthcare system, i feel it forces the quality of what you recieve right into the dumps. i will never vote for a candidate that claims to subscribe to the idea of one.

Soooo....what should happen to people who can't afford health care? They should just get sick and die with no assistance?

Yeah, you have to wonder what anyone likes about the concept of socialized health care.  For sure, there is nothing free about it.  If it is so good, why do rich Canadians come to the US for their health care?

ORIGINAL: houndlove
Soooo....what should happen to people who can't afford health care? They should just get sick and die with no assistance?

 
Well, to suggest that people, in the US anyway, who can't afford to provide for their own health care, are kicked out on the street to die if they get sick, is a bit disingenuous.  Nevertheless, I will accept that premise for the purpose of a good debate.
 
I submit that people like this are not productive members of society.  They have low level jobs or they would have health insurance.  They have few resources or they would be able to afford health care.  They are net tax takers rather than net tax payers.  They are the weakest and least desirable among us.  If people like this were animals, living in the wild, nature would take its course.  I say, let nature take its course with them too.  If you want to support them, fine.  Just don't mandate that I do it.  They had the same opportunity to provide for themselves that I have.  Don't try to put the blame for them being losers on my shoulders.

Hmmm.  So we're just supposed to go around attacking and conquering other countries so nobody else does it first?  And be what?  One huge, world wide country?  I think we'd better find a way of doing a better job with the country we've got before we even dream about taking over someone elses. As for Hilary and the health care issue - she may not have the answers but at least she was trying to come up with a solution that's more palatable than "no insurance, no treatment."
 
Joyce