Remeber Joel

I don't think it's fair to say that there was an "I hate Betsy" group....at least not if you are implying that it was used to force a ban.  And it was not an "I hate Betsy" group so much as it was and "I hate being treated like an imbecile....I hate being followed from thread to thread to be shown up, etc".  And in reality, this "group" was more a few folks who LIKE each other who would help one another "sit, stay and LEAVE IT" and NOT get caught in old Betsy's snare.  I myself received many an email with the subject line ''LEAVE IT"
 
Am I sorry she's gone?  Heck no.  Two other forums that I know of have banned her since her demise from idog......that's gotta tell us something.
 
I didn't HATE Betsy, nor do I hate ANY human being.  I hate behaviors and I hate attitudes, but even with old Betsy, yeah, I would cross the street to spit on her if she was on fire.....and probably more.  But that doesn't mean that I think she should be part of our community.

I wan't on I-dog when joel was, but I don't think he should ever be allowed back. I mean, just the idea has made it to three pages of debate. [sm=lol.gif]

I don't think it's fair to say that there was an "I hate Betsy" group....at least not if you are implying that it was used to force a ban.

 
I'm not implying anything.  Betsy irritated a lot of people, as did Joel.  Maybe I should re-phrase what I said and put it this way:  I don't know for a fact that there was an I hate Betsy, Joel, or anybody else group.  I sometimes got the feeling that some people were more irritated by Betsy and Joel than others.  If those people chose to communicate through PMs and/or to admin, I have no idea since I was not privy to it, nor did I care to be.  I might have my suspicions, but no facts, and certainly nothing I thought much about.  I don't know what the coup de grace was for any of them, but the only thing I know is that they didn't follow the rules and used up their 3 strikes.  Regardless of any real or imagined lobbying the supposed "I Hate..." groups did or did not do, ultimately the banned members stepped over the line one too many times and admin did their job.

ORIGINAL: angeltrudelle

but I strongly agree that if he were a higher up member he would ahve been permited to stay.

 
Angel, God love ya, I am just not sure I agree with that.  I am certainly far from popular or "higher up" here, but I am still here, because I follow the rules.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if there had been an effort by some members to get rid of me, but I am still here, because I follow the rules.  I have learned far more here than I have contributed.  I don't have much knowledge so I don't have much to contribute, but I am still here.  I am not one of the moderator wannabes, who shamelessly never misses an opportunity to suck up to the boss, but I am still here.
 
I really feel that if you follow the rules, you will be allowed to play here, no matter who doesn't like you.  I should be the poster child supporting that position.  []

Yep, Billy, we've been TRYING but she just won't LISTEN!!  I'm joking of course......with you, if I find something you say annoying or insulting or downright RUDE I can TELL you and you don't slap me....you might explain your position or you might tell me that you didn't mean something the way that I took it.....but you don't get snotty with me.
 
I strongly suspect that the reason old BP got to stick around for so danged long is that she was skilled at NOT crossing the line AND some of us, myself very much included, took the danged bait more than once.  If we are misbehaving as badly as the person we want gone, well, I suspect that there isn't a lot that Jaime can do.
 
Angel, I can PROMISE you that when I get snotty, Jaime tells me to knock it off in no uncertain terms.  I've been around for a fair amount of time, but I don't get away with crap either.  Doesn't matter how far up any of us are on the pecking order, we ALL still only get three strikes.

Come on.. there was totally an "I hate Betsy" group as there was an "I hate Joel" group.  They had nothing to do with the banning of said members though.  Only one erson can flip the switch on a member and I do not believe for a SECOND that she is easily influenced by fan clubs OR hate groups.  Those clowns dug their own graves.   fwiw, Betsy is said to be a man, so I always giggle to myself when I see people refer to "him" as "her". []

I know for sure, Joel would be in his glory if he knew he was, once again the topic of discussion on idog! I doubt anyone would disagree - he loved attention. Poor Joel! I remember he was asked to put warnings on his posts,"WARNING, JOEL POST!" so those who he offended would not accidently read them. LOL. Despite the warnings and the fact he was also asked to post in the NDR section, his opponents just couldn't resist. Like moths to a flame. Those were some crazy days!!!

Well then I feel totally gypped as I never got a T shirt, or mug, or ANYTHING! [sm=biggrin.gif]

ORIGINAL: glenmar
Yep, Billy, we've been TRYING but she just won't LISTEN!!

 
She is kind of hard headed, ain't she?  []
 
 

I'm joking of course......with you, if I find something you say annoying or insulting or downright RUDE I can TELL you and you don't slap me....you might explain your position or you might tell me that you didn't mean something the way that I took it.....but you don't get snotty with me

 
I agree with you, of course.  You and I have disagreed MANY times, but we always do so respectfully.  I think this is mitigated however by the fact that when we do disagree, I am always right.  []

I strongly suspect that the reason old BP got to stick around for so danged long is that she was skilled at NOT crossing the line

 
She was a skilled debater, no doubt about that, and I admired her skill, frankly.  The problem with her, as I saw it anyway, is that if you were one of her targets and you said tomorrow is Friday, she would post pages and pages arguing with you.
 

AND some of us, myself very much included, took the danged bait more than once.

 
For some reason that I can't explain, I quickly figured her for what she was and I don't think I ever said a word to her.
 

Nah, Joel...the reason that we can be respectful is that YOU always defer to my infinate wisdom. []
 
I am usually VERY good about spotting the trolls and not taking the bait, but boy, THAT one got me good, every danged time. EXCEPT when one of my friends would email me to shut the heck up!  And truely I do believe that was the extent of the "I hate...." club....trying to keep one another out of the sticky threads.

ORIGINAL: glenmar
Nah, Joel...the reason that we can be respectful is that YOU always defer to my infinate wisdom. []

 
That is what I meant to say.  BTW, I am Billy, not Joel.  []

LMAO, Boy, there's some funny stuff here. It was so funny when Joel had to put a warning on his post.
 
I'm not stuborn, I'm just always right.[]
 
I totally understand that Joel was responsible for Joel. I know he liked the attention, and he loved to get people going, he was a funny guy.  I'm just saying I think some people contributed to Joel leaving. Joel had control over his mouth. BUT I think if those that did not like what he said, just ignored him, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.

LOL!!! My deepest apologies!

ORIGINAL: angeltrudelle

BUT I think if those that did not like what he said, just ignored him, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.

His humor wasn't the problem, though it was off-color and entirely out-of-place at most times. His bigotry was the problem. Why should we have to be subjected to his bias against others? Why should people have to ignore him when he called them names? What gives him the right to say that stuff when it's against the rules that everyone else follows. And, his comments weren't always in threads that he started, so it was kind of hard to avoid.

And I think Jaime was more than lenient with Joel. I don't know how many actual 'stirikes' he got, but he got more warnings than anyone I've ever seen. He had ample opportunity to stay.

I recieved one PM about Joel and it was just a general rant. I never received any kind of recruitment letter. I disliked him all on my own []

I agree with you, Kelly.  Joel was given MANY opportunities to correct his behavior.  I think there was even a suspension or two thrown in, but still he didn't get it.  I remember that many of his posts had been zapped by the time I tried to read them.  I must have missed all the good ones because I don't recall him saying anything bigoted or racist.  Dang my luck.  []