so "you" would rather punish the poster?

as for feeding recommendations...i am not going to tell you

 "i wouldnt feed my dog that"

 without telling you exactly why i wouldnt feed my dog that...an example...

 I wont feed my dogs anything with cornmeal BECAUSE it seems to make my Kovu have terrible skin and ear allergies.As soon as a week after i tried another blend,the alergies seemed to dissapear...

 these forums for me are about learning new things,and to meet people with similair interests...most of my coworkers dont want to hear about my dogs,or how i spend time with them...so its nice to have an outlet for sharing ideas..bieng friendly about it isnt all that hard. i have been on other NDR boards where the name calling and bashing has gotten way out of hand...i dont let it stress me tho..in the end,it comes down to one thing..i will still have my pups to take care of and who give me back way more than i do for them..

no different than promoting a Kill Shelter]

I, for one, would like to know why you feel it is better to adopt from a limited admission shelter (no kill).  IMO, they are the ones who take the most adoptable dogs in, and the open admission (kill) shelters must take the Pits, the big black scary dogs, and the old dogs.  All the while, the no-kill gets the good publicity and the donations...yet, they are insuring the deaths of many great dogs and leaving the so-called kill shelters holding the bag.

I agree with Lori (willowchow) on her point about coming to a public forum.  I try very hard not to validate what I believe to be grossly harmful to dogs in general.  JMHO, like it or lump it.

Why would it make anyone defensive if I say, "I don't feed anything with corn" for instance?

Because (and I think you already know this) THAT is not what is said or HOW it is said.  And, yes, some people VOICE their opinions in a very rude way.  Again, the opinion isn't rude unless it comes across as an insult, which in many cases here it does.

But, I'm going to remove myself from this discussion now because we are just not going to get anywhere.

ETA--I certainly don't need anyone here or in real life to "soothe my feelings" either.  I quite confident that what I do be it with food or anything else is the right thing for Willow.  Again, many people do feel they are owed an apology or weren't spoken to nicely or we wouldn't have this thread and the how many others just like it.
 

  though as a professional writer I might giggle quietly to myself at fallacious reasoning techniques - please note that's the only thing that ever gives me a giggle

 
So, you are saying that their reasoning is unsound because it doesn't agree with yours?? 

IDK, I do think that there is something to being honest, and when people get either too harsh, or too concerned about hurting the feelings of others, the truth get lost somewhere in translation.

Personally, I would rather have someone get angry and decide to never come back again, yet abort/spay their female pit, then keep the pups and continue to return.

I belong to a smaller horse board, and if someone thinks you are doing something stupid with your training, riding, care, etc, they will tell you, sometimes in a manner that would earn a warning here.  However, people continue to post pics of their riding, etc to critique, and continue top come back.  Why?  Because it's good, solid advice, whether they want to hear it or not, and they know that they are going to get it straight.
 
 

  though as a professional writer I might giggle quietly to myself at fallacious reasoning techniques - please note that's the only thing that ever gives me a giggle

So, you are saying that their reasoning is unsound because it doesn't agree with yours?? 

Um.  No?  I have absolutely no idea how you could construe that from the above statement.  "Reasoning" doesn't "agree" - it's a potential path to agreement.  Unsound reasoning invalidates the particular claim being made via that reasoning.  It doesn't redound at all on the actual facts of the topic being discussed, nor does it even reflect on the validity of the apologist's rhetoric.  It simply doesn't advance their views.

I'm all for good "customer relations" method of speaking to others when trying to educate and spread the word, as well as engaging in conversations about hot topics... but some people are just begging to be taken down a notch or for a good tongue-lashing, and I must admit, at times I may be guilty of falling into it.  it's all I can do not to explode with some of the blatantly ignorant posts I've come across...
That said, it's definately  in our best interest, as a collective "dog-lovin" forum, with dogs' best interests at heart, to not turn away many of our "audience" by consistently engaging in rude and "above thou" methods when trying to teach or get a point across.  I'm not a judgemental person, and I firmly believe in walking in another's shoes before one is to place judgement upon whatever situation they might be in.... BUT~ Some books do read just like their cover shows, and those need to be called on it, IMO.   
 

The reasoning is unsound in whose opinion??? Yours.  Whether or not they can validate a claim with their opinion, doesn't make the claim a fact.  We normally aren't talking scientific facts here, just opinion.
 
 
Never mind.

I have not read through this but I just wanted to say that I have on at least 5 occasions PMed new members who have IMO been attacked or been rude to... and encouraged them to stay... and apologizing to them for whoever it was that did the bashing.  A few of them were very grateful and are still here.

Thank you for your compassion, loveukaykay...
Generally, I think sometimes people involved in fighting for a particular cause come across so many distasteful situations (to say the least) that their objectivity can be blunted.... I mean, imagine a shelter-worker who just took in 35 owner-release animals for stupidest reasons, to watch the animals be walked to a chamber or table to be exterminated... then coming here to discuss anything, and seeing a post from someone who "has to rehome their dog because they chew" or ..."because I'm moving" or   "... because I'm having a baby"...sometimes i can imagine that shelter worker does wish to punish the poster... in some small way trying to express the things they cannot say to those who come in person because of the rules of the shelter on intake.  It may not be the best vehicle for venting such emotions, but sometimes, knowing we're all human, one can take only so much before they just unload it... 
so, judgement goes both ways... having some compassion for those who are dishing it out, and trying to understand the reasons for which they do so might be just as good an idea as having compassion for those who get blasted.

Dogbert's view:

I agree that taking the high road and calmly educating someone is usually the more effective method. However, I really can't criticize those who post harshly toward someone who comes to the forum and post #1 is all about "my pittie is pregant do u no how long til she has the pupies??!!??!" If you've been a member of this forum for a little while it really doesn't take long before you've just had it with these questions. And I understand that a lot of the regular members work in rescues, shelters, or as fosters... these people not only read ignorant posts on a message board, they deal with the consequences of irresponsible pet ownership on a daily basis. I haven't walked in a day in those shoes, so I'm not about to get on anyone case for flaming yet another clueless dog owner for trying to breed or save $1 by feeding their dog Ol Roy.
 
Another thing about the "MY DOG HAS FLEES CAN I STIL BRED HER" type poster is that, in my opinion, they should be held to a reasonable standard of internet etiquette just as much as any older member. If you came upon a group of people talking about their pets at a party in real life, how would you be received if you shoved your way into the semicircle and started screaming I THINK MY DOG IS IN HEAT HOW CAN YOU TELL?????? It doesn't take a IT specialist to understand that a certain very basic level of oliteness and attentiveness is required in any social arena, and a message board is a social arena... I think when someone arrives here clearly not having taken even a cursory glance at recent posts before crafting their own, they have already broken the social code and all bets are basically off... any politeness beyond that is just grace.
 
And should we be gracious? Of course we should... but still I can't fault anyone for breaking down and issuing a "what the %#$*& are you thinking?" sometimes. We're all human.

The reasoning is unsound in whose opinion??? Yours.  Whether or not they can validate a claim with their opinion, doesn't make the claim a fact.  We normally aren't talking scientific facts here, just opinion.

The unsoundness of an argument is not a matter of opinion.  Locial fallacies are objectively incorrect - ie, 1+2=4 is objectively incorrect [edited - I can't add apparently [8|]], and so is saying, "All men who wear green hats are thin, therefore wearing a green hat makes you thin."  That's incorrect no matter whether it's true or not that wearing a green hat actually does make you thin.  [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy]This[/link] is what I'm talking about.

Maintaining respectful responses in this forum is important to me, especially when I disagree on a topic.  However, if my respectful responses are met with disrespect, rude behavior, threats, or uncalled-for "attitude" that is intended to belittle me, I will give a "correction"... When my dog has had enough, she will bite back, and so will I.  I don't expect her to tolerate overly rude behavior and I will not tolerate it when it's directed at me for no reason.  I've only done it once or twice here, but I felt it was necessary, especially since the same poster had been abusing others and was eventually asked to leave.
 
It's uncomfortable to watch someone get flamed for asking a question... If someone asked you to read a stop sign for them because they're illiterate, would you punish them, too?  If you presume the positive and the poster's replies rove otherwise (dog fighting helps keep them in shape?!?!  Insisting their 5x's mixed 9yr old dog will make great puppies with the neighbor's pit and the rest of us are idiots for questioning it?!?)- go ahead and give the "correction".  I have no problem with that.  I've learned some good lessons from stern corrections, and I presume others have, too??  Life isn't all positive - life will correct you, in one form or another...

I agree - it wouldn't hurt us as a group to be kind in our ministrations.

I think there are two parts to this thing. For one, I believe as intelligent and compassionate people we CAN share our opinions and knowlege without personally demeaning the poster. There is a huge difference between saying "I think breeding a dog under ____ circumstances is wrong because ___" and Saying, "I can't belive you bred your dog without____. You don't even deserve to have a dog. If you can't do ____ for your dog, I can't even imagine how you treat your kids."

I think many times disagreement with thoughts and actions needs to be shared, because if we don't say we think this is wrong and why, then the next time they won't even think twice - and they won't learn anything without opposing views. However, its not necessary, or even helpful to be hurtful and demeaning to the poster.

The second part would be going beyond saying what you think about the situation to actually HELPING the poster that has come for help. I also feel an obligation to help a person when they need it - whether I agree with what they've already done- or not as part of the responsibility for being a regular here, and part of my responsibilities as someone who cares about dogs and people.

I realize there are some people that think if everyone isn't stroking them and singing their praises, that they're being yelled at or bashed. No matter how kind and gentle you may be when you're disagreeing with their methods or reasoning, they still think they're being attacked. I think with them all you can do is put the information out there, and let them decide what to do with it - even if they feel the need to scream about being wronged. Personally, if I know I've been kind and real, I will still sleep at night.

I think the "stop beating up on each other" thing should apply to all of the different sections, and to each other. Sometimes we turn on each other, even when we're all on the same team here.


As a PS - Becca, thank God you don't critique my emails, else I'd probably be fired.

personal insults are never called for.
However, often people who come read the threads learn more than the original poster. Certain responses may not help the original poster at all (and may enrage him/her completely), but may help ten other folks not end up in the same situation.