so "you" would rather punish the poster?

Thank you for posting this... you are 100% correct.
 
Like i stated to one of the other poster...
 
I don't encourage people to breed their dogs without being educated, informed, and most of all having a dog that is worth breeding. But many people come onto these forums with a pregnant dog... personally i am not for " abortion" in humans or dogs unless it is a life/death situation ( stated by a vet). If abortion is okay with you.. then by all means go for it... for me it is still life and no different than promoting a Kill Shelter. BUT THAT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION.
 
EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION
 
Those of you who are breeders or educated in breeding what are YOU doing to promote good dog ownership??? I can tell you bashing someone and calling them names isn't going to make them not want to breed their dogs. It just makes you look like a &^%&^.
I Personally hold 2-3 WHELPING COURSES per year for FREE. I have these folks who want to breed or stud their males come and get hands on with a real whelp... 9 times out of 10 they leave my house horrified and running for the hills. The one person who stays from servicing to 8+ weeks is the person who wants to breed for the right reasons, and normally will go out get the dog checked for all hips , eyes ect... I mentor them for FREE for as long as they want me.. and make sure they take other under their wings...
 
I CHALLENGE OTHER BREEDERS STOP PREACHING AND START TEACHING... IT WORKS BETTER.
 

thanks for posting on a great subject!!
I know i've felt alienated on other (non-dog related) forums/boards simply because i was not particularly knowledgeable on some subject and people responded as though i was a complete idiot. so i felt afraid to go back a nd ask more questions. and those responses i speak of were not nearly as negative as alot of the ones i see on this board. 
 
 i think there is a way to educate people without making them feel stupid and ashamed. many people have no resources w/ which to learn current information about dog care. how can we expect them to know that many backyard breeders are bad for example, if they have never had anyone tell them it is, or haven't access to books/articles on the topic? thus it is forums like these that many people come to FIRST to seek more information. the fact that they came to this forum at all shows they at least have SOME desire to learn what their dog needs.
 
 

Breeding threads are but one example...I also see the same with feeding/nutrition and training threads. Since I was a kid I've been taught, that people make mistakes, and smart ones learn from them...and when I make one and ask people to help me fix it...well then I'll likely get chastised as well...so be it.....I'm a big girl...I can take it...and I deserve it truth be told. I sift the advice and accept the barbs and move on and fix the issue.
 
My info/advice  may be clinical, blunt and to the point, and my lack of cosseting may trouble some...I can live with that, hopefully so can they, if they get the advice they seek..
 
ethical breeding means different things to different people, and nothing to some...which is sad. The OP's points were well made and well taken.

I think part of the problem is that people don't feel obligated to be polite since they can't SEE the person they're "speaking" with.  Courtesy is for everyone and there's no need to be snotty with anyone.

I try to let a newbie know that there's more to breeding than a stud fee and a bitch that will stand equalling cute puppies and money. Most people forget that whelping doesn't always go smoothly, health testing is necessary (mandatory in my book!), and all sorts of expensive problems can crop up for any nimber of reasons. As an example, my neighbor inherited a Boxer from the mom's parents and, since he was intact, decided to "make some bucks" (to use the dad's term).  I asked about his pedirgee and looked it over when it arrived. There were NO champions in the pedigree ANYWHERE and this Boxer, though a nice boy, should NOT be bred. He has an odd-shaped head and is getting on in years (I think he's nine now). I managed to talk them out of this. 

I always talk with kids who want to breed their Pitties and have talked ALL of them out of it (the ones who have asked about it).  I hope to keep this record since there are SO many Pits in the shelters already. Labs are as common as house flies in our part of the country, so I try to discourage their owners from breeding as well.

I am always polite and never get confrontational.  All it does is put people on the defensive!

I agree 100% too. And once someone's dog is pregnant, there really isn't any point in beating them over the head about why the dog wasn't spayed.  The damage is done, so just nicely give the information to help them have a healthy mom and healthy pups, and encourage them to spay as soon as possible.[]

Joyce

ORIGINAL: mrv

Ok,  potentially openning a fairly "loaded" issue.  This is a generally available and easy to find board.  You must register to use the list.  Ground rules established.

A new member posts a question related to breeding.  Posted replies seem to run considerably more negative than positive.  Replies may be sufficiently punishing the original poster never returns.  What has truly been accomplished?

There are some realities that could be considered.  Not all eople can or will go to show breeders.  Not all people will research a breed.  Not all people will end up being anything more than a JQP owner.  What could be done on this board that might bring someone closer to responsible ownership rather than drive them away permanently?

There are times when the responses on this board are every bit as bad as some of the horror stories I hear about people responding negatively to honest interest on the part of a first time show attendee.

Guess there is some value in the old rule  If you cant say something nice........... 

mrv:

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  I'm not sure that negativity proves the points that certain posters want to make.  On the flip side though, if those of us that care about dogs don't say something to educate or enlighten the OPs, then aren't we falling short of our responsibilities to the animals?  I'm not saying that "bashing" people is in good taste, however sometimes being abrubt works better in certain situations.  If your dog was running in the street unbeknownst to you and I used a small whisper, your dog might get hit by a car.  If I shouted "HEY YOUR DOG IS IN THE ROAD!!!"  It might just wake you up.

You've seen my style of posting, I don't bash.  I will sometimes use sarcasm and point blank reasoning to get my points across.  I know others will be there for the "rude awakening" and that I don't have to participate in it. 

My friends and I met a young (early 20's) at our dog park.  She was ly afraid of my friends Dane/Lab who usually lays down in the face of trouble.  She told us she was getting a Weimeraner from a breeder in WV.  We told her the good points and we stressed the bad points of Weims.  This was to be her first dog after all and she had no idea anything about the breed but that they are amazingly handsome.  After we told her some facts and introduced her to a well behaved Weim and her owner, she decided that she'll wait for awhile.  We used shock value to wake her up and in the process probably saved a dog from living a life that wouldn't be too happy.  Even Lexie's owner (the well behaved Weim) told the young girl that there were nights she'd cry herself to sleep thinking "Why did I do this to myself??" 

My point being the shock value was a slap in the face to the girl.  She had these of this and that.  We woke her up to reality.  That's what I think the "bashing" is meant to do. 

Just my opinion.

I think you get points for using the word "cosseting."
 
But I do agree with the general point that flaming doesn't accomplish much and gets everyone on the defensive.
 
And I liked the post about introducing would-be breeders to the whelping process. It's a daunting amount of work that should hopefully scare away everyone but the serious, legitimatee breeder.

I most assuredly agree that education about breeds, ownership, purchase etc needs to occur.  My intent was to provide a "wake up" call to all those who post.  There will be many questions and issues from folks that will be red flags.  I wanted to suggest that how a response was phrased will have an impact on whether or not a person will choose to stay around and potentially move toward more responsible pet ownership.
 
Maybe if we think of it as we do training.  Positive reinforcement works .  Now I dont mean to offer praise and encouragement, rather thoughtful and respectful commentary.

That was mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago how we all decry rubbing a dog's nose in their "misdeed" yet we do not hesitate for a second to do it to a fellow human. Training, nutrition, breeding. Sometimes, the best threads are the NDR-type, such as, what crazy food combos do you eat, etc. Everybody lightens up a little and has fun with it. In spite of some of the predicaments I get into here, I still seem to get some enjoyment and learning out of being here. I have a tougher hide than most. But a new person can be scared off quite easily if their first exposure is the snippy side of things.
 

Honestly, I don't know a thing about breeding. 

But, I do know this issue has been brought up over and over again.  This is a public forum.  If someone comes here and posts a question and is truly wanting to do things right, whatever subject it is, they will take the comments, use what advice they can and ignore what they don't need. 

Now, on the other hand, if they are coming here for validation on something they are doing that they know is wrong and they don't get that, well then all of a sudden everyone is rude. 

Personally, I think there is a difference between being rude and having a difference of opinion.  It seems here as soon as someone disagrees, people need to then defend themselves.  Who said you have to defend yourself??  Who said you have to change anyones mind to your way of thinking??   On my chow forum, they will post a question, everyone gives their opinion and at the end of the thread nobody has responded to each others posts.  The OP has 15 or so opinons, some the same, some not and they do what they think is best for them. 

That's when the problems start.  I don't think it is a matter of being nice.  I think it's a matter of only the people who agree with the OP can respond without a war breaking out.  Sorry, but THAT also does a huge disservice to the OP, dogs and to others reading this forum. 

Over the years, I've gotten a feel for the "type" of owner the new people are by how they post and sometimes there may be more than one "right" way to do something depending on that persons lifestyle, type of dog, location and just generally how they keep their dog.  I might answer the same question a totally different way if someone else asks it.  Does that make sense??    I keep an open mind, not everyone does things exactly like me.   And, the way I do things isn't right for other dogs.  And, nobody has the right to judge others. 

Oh, this is goodhttp://www.chazhound.com/forums/showpost.php?p=378783&postcount=1

I've been thinking about this subject for a few days and suddenly here is a thread about it. Rather convenient!

I was thinking about another dog board I'm on where there is very little flaming and people are much more respectful. The biggest difference I can see between the two boards is that this one gets a tremendous number of posts from a VERY wide spectrum of the world.

What the other board specifically very rarely gets are posts from people who
a) don't speak English very well
b) are probably teenagers

I think these are the two groups of people who cause the most confusion and conflict here because in the case of the non-English speakers, it's almost impossible to tell what's really going on, and in the case of the teenagers, well, the same!

We get the raw novice who knows NOTHING, and we get him or her nearly every single day. The other board does not.

As one who teaches people of all ages how to play the violin, I must tell you, it takes tremendous patience to deal with beginners. They screech and squawk and make horrible noises. If I got down on them about it what would be the point in being a teacher? They'd never learn to make beautiful music.

We are in a leadership position here, all of us who post. For every one of us who posts there are probably at least 300 anonymous lurkers who are trying to find answers to questions. It's not just between the folks who are typing, we are role models, we are on stage, we are the standard whether we like it or not.

Think about this before you post your angry reply to the rural grandma who thinks her schnoodle is cute and should be bred with her relative's pug.

I think it is very possible to be clear and to the point without being rude.

I am 50 years old and learned alot since I joined.  I've taken my lumps when I derserved them and moved on.  Those responses on the pregnant dog issue were right on and that person needed to hear it.  She wanted sympathy for being an idiot. (sorry was that bashing?) 

Full of good points.