Curious as to your reaction to this article

I think Hooter's for Neuters is a great idea, mainly because I agree with Jen. These are they guys who equate their own nards with their dogs'. If it takes a bikini-clad woman to change their minds, it's a great idea!

On the other hand, it's not the women in Hooters who are being exploited. But what Hooter's and places like it encourage is the mindset of men who DO think of women as sex objects. THAT'S the explotation. It's subtle, it's social, and with enough encouragement can be all-pervasive. It's great that we've made some progress in society, and that men are starting to respect women more. This has been a slow change over decades.

Many of you are young and don't realize that women have had to fight every step of the way to overcome this mindset that women are worth LESS in the marketplace, shouldn't be hired because we have children, or get pregnant, or just because they think we aren't as smart as men are. So they pay us LESS for the SAME WORK. THAT'S exploitation. The don't promote us in our jobs, we train men and then those men get promoted past us. THAT'S exploitation. The sexually harass us (because their mindset is we are a collection of body parts--it's more complex than that but you all know what I am talking about, right?) and fire us for being "uppity" (sticking up for ourselves or being smarter than they are)!

ALL these things have happened to me, and so many, many women. THAT'S exploitation. I don't think women have reached parity in the workplace yet. It was 51¢ for each dollar a man got paid, I think it's gone up a little...but we aren't there yet.

So while I will not go to Hooter's (we don't have one in Fairbanks, but we have titty bars--bleah) because I don't need boobs to eat my lunch, and I do not care for their promotion of women as sex objects, I applaud their help in the spay/neutering arena. Hooter's promotes the sexist mindset, that really bugs me. But as Jen said, it's those same kind of guys who need to get the spay/neuter message. I think of it as targeted marketing. []

I believe in equal pay for equal work and such.  I think you should get paid what your worth regardless of sex. 
  But on a side note.....for those of us who have chosen to be stay at home moms I get alot of derogatory comments since I am not doing something worthwhile like working outside the home.  I think it is personal choice and I do not like being talked to or treated as a lesser woman by other women because I chose to stay home.  I think its great that some women chose to have careers and such but...I don't like being told that  I am basically worthless and taking women back to the 50's era.  Sorry for my side rant but I just had to say that and its not directed at anyone personally , just my experiences.

Jean, while I accept your conclusion that women are paid less than men are for the same work, your premise that the reason for this is some Hooters imposed mindset strikes me as absurd. 
 
The market determines what one is paid.  The market has determined that women should be paid less than men, not Hooters.  There are perfectly valid reasons for this disparity, and you named many of them in your post.  Whether you like it or not, men and women just ain't equal.
 
You are a capable adversary and I would be happy to engage you in a debate on this topic, if you want to start another thread.

I don't like being told that I am basically worthless and taking women back to the 50's era.

 
Hope this makes you feel better:  I personally think women who say this are saying it because deep down they feel guilty, are jealous, and wish they had the guts to make this choice themselves.  This is coming from a working mom who has a lot of respect for stay at home moms. 

Robin, TY!  Thanks for the comment![]  I think that it is great that we do have the choice to do either and I think more women in general need to support each other whether career moms or stay at home.  We both have our choices and we both do our jobs to the best of our abilities.  DH always says that it doesn't matter what other people say meaning the ones who make the cutting comments, but it is nice to hear it from an outside person![]  Thanks after reading that I am smiling!  I guess I was having one of my weak moments lol!

Billy I did come back to answer your query, but lightening knocked out my modem so now I'm reduced to a laptop AND dialup......
 
Why is it so different for me to comment on mens rears?  Isn't that what MEN have been doing about womens bodies since before the Flood?
 
I don't think I can improve on what Jean has said.  I'm old enough that I was part of the frontlines of the fight for some sort of equality for women.  When I first started in advertising sales we were expected to wear a three piece suit, only ours had to be a knee length skirt.  And I had more than a few clients that I almost knocked on their keisters for assuming that they were gonna get a little something for spending their money with my station.  Keep your hands OFF my butt and boobs, thank you.
 
Yet today??  I look around advertising sales and guess what I see?  Young women dressing like hookers and rubbing up against clients...teenage girls walking the streets in what I consider their underwear......so some of us fought and fought hard for every tiny bit of equality women have and so many younger women turn around and act like the very image WE fought so hard to overcome.  And establishments like Hooters make my blood boil...not just at the corporations, but the women who devalue themselves as they do.

Glenda, unfortuantely in this day and age it seems that it has been programmed that in order for "women" to get somewhere they need to use their body to get there.  I see more half nekkid women out there then I did ten years ago.  [&:]  I hope no one takes what I said wrong.[&:]

This is certainly an interesting coment on the times we live in...good to hear both sides.

 Firestorm,my wife is also a stay at home mom,and it is no easy job,one i dont think i couold handle as well as she does.My kids are better for it...all straight a students and while not always perfec t inthe home,they are respectful and descent kids in public..

 this also leads to the fact that there are so many homes with 2 working parents,or single working parents,that the kids spend much of thier time learning  thier behavior and respect from thier peers in the same situation.thier are so many people who work work work to be able to buy buy buy all these things that they dont need(like a $200 thousand dollar house)and all the goodies and toys to fill it up,that it only makes these people stressed and always away from home..when they do get home,they have no time for the kids.strangely enough,this seemed to start when?in the later 60's and 70's....?the kids from these first dual working parents are now in thier 30's and 40's,with kids of thier own,and alot of these kids are left to fend for them selves without as much a moral compass as they might have had back in the 50's/early 60's.

 While i wouldnt want my girls to have to work at a place like Hooters,i know that they are smart enough to ake sound descisions on thier own.

 As for prostitution,to me its more of a public health issue than anything else...i am more against it than for it...

Sorry, but the womens' movement is about CHOICES.  The choice to be a working (outside the home) mother, or a stay at home mother.  The choice to have children or not have children.  The choice to use one's body to make money or not to. 
 
So you fought to get women out of one box, just to put them in another?  So if you use your body to earn a living, you are somehow "betraying" the woman's movement?  Never mind that it is your CHOICE to do so, because your choice is not good enough, not unless it fits the mold the "feminists" laid out for you.  No, sorry.  Imposing another set of rules on women, no matter how nobel the cause, is still just that.

Yes, it is about choices.  But many of us fought against being thought of as nothing more than arm candy or T&A.  Forgive us for being discouraged that all these years later, younger women think those are still their ONLY choices.  Unless you lived the "good old days" you can't understand where I'm coming from, so I'll quit trying to explain.

Glenda, forgive me if I don't use the quote function here.  It is just too cumbersome, for me, when you want to comment on more than one portion of a post.
 
>>Why is it so different for me to comment on mens rears?  Isn't that what MEN have been doing about womens bodies since before the Flood? <<
 
I don't think it is different.  I believe it is YOU who is implying that it is okay for women to lust after men but is exploitive and now, devaluing, for men to lust after women.  Personally, I don't care who anyone oogles.  I am still not sure if I am spelling that word properly, BTW.  []
 
>>Why is it so different for me to comment on mens rears?  Isn't that what MEN have been doing about womens bodies since before the Flood? <<
 
Are you suggesting that women noticing men's butts is a more recent development?  []
 
>>I look around advertising sales and guess what I see?  Young women dressing like hookers and rubbing up against clients....<<
 
I guess, if you want to be successful, you use whatever assets you have to the best of your ability.  It might be demeaning and exploitive to you, but to that young woman, it is just smart business.  As a businessman, with a limited advertising budget, I would prefer to work with a rep who can deliver results FOR ME.  If I had a lot bigger budget, maybe I wouldn't mind spending a little of it with some 20 something cutie, who rubs her boobs up against me, in the course of fulfilling her duties.
 
>>but the women who devalue themselves as they do.<<
 
Devalue themselves in whose eyes?  Yours?  Who are you to judge them?  I bet you the average Hooters girl makes more money than the average woman selling radio, so which "profession" has the most value? 
 
>>I'm old enough that I was part of the frontlines of the fight for some sort of equality for women.<<
 
What fight and what did it accomplish?  As Jean said, there is still a significant disparity between what men and women are paid for the same work.  Most men, under 30, are not going to open a door for a woman or give up his seat on the bus to her.  When was the last time you saw a man tip his hat to a woman?  So what, pray tell, have you accomplished?
 
Oh yeah, women have made a lot of progress in their quest for equality.  Let me give you a few examples.
 
At one time, to pass the physical test to be a firefighter, one of the requirements was that you had to be able to pick up a 150 pound sandbag and carry it down two flights of stairs.  The purpose of this was to simulate carrying an unconscious person.  Does that seem a reasonable requirement for someone wanting to be a firefighter?  It does to me, but very few women could do it.  The city council decided they didn't have enough women on the fire department so the requirement was dropped.
 
To be a motorcycle cop, one of the physical requirements was you had to set your overturned bike back up on its wheels.  Does that seem reasonable for a motorcycle cop?  It does to me, but few women could do it.  Some bureaucrat decided that there weren't enough women motorcycle cops, so the requirement was dropped.
 
Both of the situations I outlined here occurred in Denver Colorado.  Look it up.  So, if you're in Denver, and the building you're in catches on fire and you are overcome by smoke, the first firefighter who comes across your comatose body may or may not be able to carry you to safety.  But at least women have made progress toward equality with men.  I doubt I will sleep better tonight because of it though.
 
I am old enough to remember when men really did respect their wives and children respected their mothers.  Put them on a pedestal, actually.  I can remember when men didn't cuss or tell dirty jokes in front of a woman and children didn't argue with their mother.  I can remember when a woman who stayed at home to raise her kids was the norm and her contribution was appreciated.
 
Yeah, women have made progress all right.  Congratulations on your progress.

There are quite a few women who work at hooters, do cocktail waitressing, or strip to work there way through college.
 
I'm sorry, but it simply is not fair to the younger generation to tell them, "We fought so that you could have choices, but only the choices that WE think are worthy choices."
 
I can tell you right now that it is that kind of mentality that is driving young women to seperate themselves from feminism, and is causing "feminism" to be almost a dirty word in some circles of young women.  I don't think that THAT is what you fought for either, is it?

Probe I am speechless!  Wow!  Good points made.[]

OK fine, I'm an all wet old fart and everything that I think and believe is wrong and I'm trying to put the younger generation of women under my judgmental thumb.  I'm not gonna waste my time trying to explain MY perceptive to folks who don't want to see it.

What about those of us who are anti-Hooters not because it is exploitive of women, but because it degrades sexuality as a whole for both genders?  I don't think sex should be a commodity. It should be a form of expression of intimacy between two adults (personally, I think they should be married, but even if I allowed - in my own mind - pre-marital sex I'd still believe it shouldn't be a commodity).  Hooters, prostitutes, Chippendales, beer ads, "hootchimama" clothing - they ALL encourage a mindset of sex as nothing more than a product for sale or purchase.  I don't like women ogling butts any more than I like men ogling breasts.  *And* I think Victorian men ogling ankles were just as "guilty" as modern men ogling boobs.  It's the motivation and the mindset, not the body part. [sm=2cents.gif][sm=peace.gif]
 

But what Hooter's and places like it encourage is the mindset of men who DO think of women as sex objects. THAT'S the explotation. It's subtle, it's social, and with enough encouragement can be all-pervasive. It's great that we've made some progress in society, and that men are starting to respect women more. This has been a slow change over decades.