Cropping and Docking

When we bred cockers we docked and removed dews.  I was always there, but could never bring myself to do it myself.  Most breeders do.  Dews and tails were done at 2-3 days....never a whimper, never a fuss, so must not have been too awful for the babies.  I wouldn't do it now, tails anyhow, but.......a ripped dew is awful tho.

when i worked at the vet clinic i dont think anyone ever brought in a pup to get it's dewclaws removed...but we did a lot of tails.

Maybe, but the breeders I was referring to were anything BUT byb's.  I'm talking folks with championship lines and drop dead gorgeous dogs.  Folks who really WORKED to improve the breed, not folks in it for $$$

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Dew claw removal is HORRIBLE.

What experience do you have???   What is so horrible about it.  How does it affect the dog in any way.  I've seen it done many times as the puppy was being born and they didn't even notice it.  No bleeding or pain nothing.  Have you ever seen a dog rip a dew claw after they were older.  I have and it is extremely painful and bloody.  Many dogs dew claws aren't even fully attached when they are born.  They are just hanging there loose waiting to get caught. 

I've seen them clipped off litters at the vets.  They bled and they were in pain.  Some of them got infected later.  I never noticed them hanging loose.  I friggin cried watching it happen. 

I stand by my statement despite your incredulous ???

Correct me if I am wrong, but the dewclaws are removed from the hind leg only right?

The ones on the hind leg of my chow were nothing more that flapps of skinn with 2 nails hanging from them, she could not have gotten traction with them. They were removed when she was spayed because she did catch them on stuff, the carpet, the couch almost anything. The ones on the front legs of all my dogs has muscles attached that hold them clost to their legs, and way less likely to get caught on things. Some breeds have to have dew-claw, by standard, and some have double dewclaws, by standard, but they are not flaps of skin they are attached with muscle and bone like any other toes. The problem arrises with the flaps of skin with nails growing from them that grow where proper dewclaws should be.




As for breeding for upright ears etc. There was an experiment in which they crossed corgis in to Boxer lines to produce dogs born with bob-tails naturally. http://www.steynmere.com/BOBTAILS.html Take a look, so breeding for bobtails can be done, with out-crossing, IMO most of the bob-tailed ones look like bad docking jobs. But name one breed whose ears look like a proper crop? I am sure we could breed in prick ears, but they would be very large.

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

I saw a litter of pups get them done and it looked like they cut off their entire toes. It kinda grossed me out. I'm all for dew claw removal, too. I think i made it sound like i wasn't.

quick question: anti docking/cropping people-do you have declawed cats?

De Clawing a cat is one of the worst things you can do to a cat...It is like cutting your fingers off at the first knuckle joint. 

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Bad enough that the AKC supports Puppy Mills, by soliciting their registration business. No sense blaming them for cropping and docking The AKC would sell their soul for a dollar...

Here we go again with the AR propaganda and lies.  We have shown you in the past where the AKC has a active inspection program that checks high volume breeders and does suspend the ones that don't meet the standards yet you still ost the propaganda.  

Tell me what is the legal definition is of a puppy mill anyway.    

Wasn't Best Friends the ones that spent thousands of dollars importing dogs from Lebanon instead of using the money to help dogs in this country?  Sounds like they were fishing for more donations.

The AKC inspects Puppy Mills.  You don't expect me to believe that, do you....Last year the AKC ran a big promo program  directed at puppy mills encouraging them to register their dogs with the AKC. How about the deal they have going with Petland?  [linkhttp://www.thedogpress.com/ClubNews/Betrayed_AKC.PuppyMill.asp]http://www.thedogpress.com/ClubNews/Betrayed_AKC.PuppyMill.asp[/link]

[linkhttp://www.thedogpress.com/Columns/Editorials/06_Sold.Out.By.AKC_09.asp]http://www.thedogpress.com/Columns/Editorials/06_Sold.Out.By.AKC_09.asp[/link]

http://www.dogboston.com/blog/general/akc-in-desperation-endorses-puppy-mills-act-now/


I notice that almost everytime some organization is mentioned on any thread on this forum ,  that  does something to try and help animals, you always immediately  start trying to show that the organization is no good.  I wonder why you do that? 

[linkhttp://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/57597.html]http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/57597.html[/link]

ORIGINAL: talenak

Some people get wound up over the most petty things, probably because they are bored to tears or want to appear "perfect" to everyone they meet. Must be a sad way to live.

Are you talking about me?  I'm not clear.

That is up to you to determine, I was making a general statement on what I believe to be the main reason that people chop parts off their pets to make them look a certain way....

quick question: anti docking/cropping people-do you have declawed cats?

I'm not anti-cropping and docking per se, I think the owner should be able to chose and if the breeder does it too early for a choice, the owners will have to find another breeder, but luckily I prefer breeds that don't come with that choice so I don't really have a well thought out position one way or the other. 

I have three cats and two are front declawed b/c it was done before I adopted them.  My third I adopted at the earliest possible age the rescue released cats (7-8 weeks) and never had her done b/c it's not really an issue.  If I had a choice with my other two, I probably would not have had it done, but with both of them I picked them the day after it was done and since they were young and almost weightless, their recovery was like 24 hours.  I don't see why cat declaws are really necessary.  I don't think it's *that* cruel in a very young cat (8 weeks) when they are already put under for their spay/neuter, but I definitely think it is cruel for a cat 3lbs or more b/c the more they weigh the more painful it is and the longer the recovery takes.

I didn't really know what dew claws were and Kenya has them in front (can they have them in back?).  I have no intention of removing them now.  If they catch on the agility equipment, I believe there are pads like wristbands you can buy to protect them.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

quick question: anti docking/cropping people-do you have declawed cats?

I'm not anti-cropping and docking per se, I think the owner should be able to chose and if the breeder does it too early for a choice, the owners will have to find another breeder, but luckily I prefer breeds that don't come with that choice so I don't really have a well thought out position one way or the other. 

I have three cats and two are front declawed b/c it was done before I adopted them.  My third I adopted at the earliest possible age the rescue released cats (7-8 weeks) and never had her done b/c it's not really an issue.  If I had a choice with my other two, I probably would not have had it done, but with both of them I picked them the day after it was done and since they were young and almost weightless, their recovery was like 24 hours.  I don't see why cat declaws are really necessary.  I don't think it's *that* cruel in a very young cat (8 weeks) when they are already put under for their spay/neuter, but I definitely think it is cruel for a cat 3lbs or more b/c the more they weigh the more painful it is and the longer the recovery takes.

I didn't really know what dew claws were and Kenya has them in front (can they have them in back?).  I have no intention of removing them now.  If they catch on the agility equipment, I believe there are pads like wristbands you can buy to protect them.

[linkhttp://www.declawing.com/]http://www.declawing.com/[/link]

[linkhttp://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/cat_care/declawing_cats_more_than_just_a_manicure/index.html]http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/cat_care/declawing_cats_more_than_just_a_manicure/index.html[/link]

[linkhttp://www.petstation.com/declaw.html]http://www.petstation.com/declaw.html[/link]

http://cats.about.com/cs/declawing/a/declawing.htm

The AKC inspects Puppy Mills. You don't expect me to believe that, do you....Last year the AKC ran a big promo program directed at puppy mills encouraging them to register their dogs with the AKC. How about the deal they have going with Petland?

 
What deal do they have going with Petland.  Tell me what it entails.  It will be interesting to see the AR spin on something that doesn't exist.
 

I notice that almost everytime some organization is mentioned on any thread on this forum ,  that  does something to try and help animals, you always immediately  start trying to show that the organization is no good.  I wonder why you do that?  

Just the organizations that are so AR slanted that they want to end the existance of dogs via restricting breeding or manditory S/N laws and those AR organizations that want to force people to accept their agenda that includes no animal use by humans.
 
 
I was wonder since you are so anti breeder/breeding and anti purebreds do you want to end the existance of dogs as pets because if you stop all breeding that is what will happen.  We know what the AR people think what should be done with the pit bulls.
 
 
 
 

Bob, don't worry, cats are my thang. []  I'm against declawing.  It's totally unnecessary, but I won't not adopt or rescue a declawed cat just b/c it's declawed.  Same as I won't not adopt or take in a stray dog b/c someone else docked its tail.

I'm against declawing. It's totally unnecessary,

 
I'm curious.  What do you do about a cat that you can't get to stop destroying your furniture, drapes etc.  They say to provide a scratching post but does that always work?   Do you then just dump the cat in a shelter or put it down??
 
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the dewclaws are removed from the hind leg only right?

 
Sometimes the fronts are also removed.  I have seen some nasty injuries to the front dew claws.
 
 

I'm curious. What do you do about a cat that you can't get to stop destroying your furniture, drapes etc. They say to provide a scratching post but does that always work? Do you then just dump the cat in a shelter or put it down??

Soft Paws, or deal with it.  A cat has claws.  A cat scratches.  Don't get cats if you don't want claws.  Even my declawed cats scratch.  Don't get dogs if you can't handle barking or walking a dog...same principle.  Most people do not provide the right kind of scratching post and/or do not actually train the cat where it is appropriate to scratch.  Cats don't really like those carpeted posts.  Most cats need a more desirable texture and prefer sisal or corrogated cardboard.  You can also use deterrants like tin foil, sticky paper, loud noises, citris scent, etc.  Soft Paws are becoming more popular.  You can use operant conditioning, NILF, and clicker on cats just like you can on dogs.  It takes a bit longer and is a little less intuitive, but it's possible.  I've clicker trained one of my cats.  There are tons of options.  Getting a cat only to dump it in a shelter b/c it scratches probably means that person shouldn't have gotten that cat in the first place.