Cropping and Docking

Soft Paws, or deal with it.

 
Don't you think though that if declawing was illegal that many people that don't have a patience or ability to train their cats and it would end up with many more cats being dumped in shelters.  I ask what is worse, a declawed cat or another one in a shelter where it probably will be put down. 
 

ORIGINAL: timsdat

The AKC inspects Puppy Mills. You don't expect me to believe that, do you....Last year the AKC ran a big promo program directed at puppy mills encouraging them to register their dogs with the AKC. How about the deal they have going with Petland?

What deal do they have going with Petland.  Tell me what it entails.  It will be interesting to see the AR spin on something that doesn't exist.

I notice that almost everytime some organization is mentioned on any thread on this forum ,  that  does something to try and help animals, you always immediately  start trying to show that the organization is no good.  I wonder why you do that?  

Just the organizations that are so AR slanted that they want to end the existance of dogs via restricting breeding or manditory S/N laws and those AR organizations that want to force people to accept their agenda that includes no animal use by humans.


I was wonder since you are so anti breeder/breeding and anti purebreds do you want to end the existance of dogs as pets because if you stop all breeding that is what will happen.  We know what the AR people think what should be done with the pit bulls.

You never give up on your anti AB1634 agenda do you?  [sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]  As far as the Petland -AKC association, you didn't read any of the links that I pasted in my post???  [&:]

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Soft Paws, or deal with it.

Don't you think though that if declawing was illegal that many people that don't have a patience or ability to train their cats and it would end up with many more cats being dumped in shelters.  I ask what is worse, a declawed cat or another one in a shelter where it probably will be put down. 

What would you do with a dog that chews stuff up, have it's teeth pulled out?  

ORIGINAL: Liesje

Bob, don't worry, cats are my thang. []  I'm against declawing.  It's totally unnecessary, but I won't not adopt or rescue a declawed cat just b/c it's declawed.  Same as I won't not adopt or take in a stray dog b/c someone else docked its tail.

That wouldn't bother me either if I was adopting or rescuing a cat, in fact I owner 2 cats that were declawed when I got them. 

What would you do with a dog that chews stuff up, have it's teeth pulled out?

 
Crate it when I couldn't watch it and otherwise remove the inspiration for the chewing if training didn't work.  Is that an option for a cat???
 

You never give up on your anti AB1634 agenda do you?

 
Who said anything about California.  The proposal of these laws are going on nationwide with the push of the AR extremists.
 

As far as the Petland -AKC association, you didn't read any of the links that I pasted in my post???

 
I know the story from the proposed association.  Did you even read the the proposal or just take the hype and spin that was posted as fact?  All it did was allow POS registration of dogs that came to Petland that allready had AKC paperwork.  It just saved the necessity of mailing the paperwork in.  It didn't endorse anything.  In fact booklets were going to distributed outlining responsible ownership and training resources.  Most of the people that were against it didn't even understand the terms of the agreement and thought that any dog that came thru Petland was going to be AKC registered.
 
 

Crate it when I couldn't watch it and otherwise remove the inspiration for the chewing if training didn't work. Is that an option for a cat???

Why wouldn't it be?  And just think, cat carriers are hella cheaper than dog crates. 
We had our cats on a "dog" run when we lived right by a really busy road.  We actually started doing that after one got hit in the face with a fire hose and we spent a ton of money getting her jaw reconstructed.  They adapt just like your dog will.  I used to take Angel for walks on a leash when I was younger.  It's not that they can't, it's just that people have a different "standard" for cats.  People used to tell me how cruel we were.  I always felt bad for them when those same people would be crying later cause their cat got hit by a car.


Just an FYI, in case anyone responds to any of my responses.  I'm leaving this debate.  It started out really good.  But today we have name calling and "what are you, stupid?" hints that are not even KIND of disguised by the questions they are pretending to be.  It was fun while it lasted though! 

Don't you think though that if declawing was illegal that many people that don't have a patience or ability to train their cats and it would end up with many more cats being dumped in shelters. I ask what is worse, a declawed cat or another one in a shelter where it probably will be put down.

Well, I agree with you there, but I think owners need to be educated about cats and their clawing habits before they decide to get a cat.  I am against de-clawing, but I've had cats with claws, cats with no claws, cats that were declawed at 7 weeks, cats that were declawed at 3 years....and I've yet to see any cat's behavior or temperament affected by the declaw as some people will argue.  Again, I'd never have it done to my cat b/c I actually care more about my cats than my couch, but I've seen nothing to support that it affects their quality of life.  My main beef is that declawing an adult cat, or really any cat over a few pounds in weight, makes recovery longer and far more painful for the cat.  If people insist on having it done, do it at 8 weeks with the spay/neuter, just like dogs who have tails or dewclaws removed typically have it done at just a few days old.  Both of these scenarios involve the least amount of pain and recovery for the animal.

LOL, I would so laugh at the first person to come and tell me it's their choice as to whether or not I dock the tails of my pups. They wouldn't have to worry about getting one with a docked tail. I'd send them on their way. What maybe people don't understand is that the litter belongs to the breeder until the day they leave their house. So, therefore, it's THEIR choice whether or not to dock the tails. Period!
 
At 2-3 days old It's hard to tell who I am going to keep and Who I am not. Therefore, they are all done to the Cocker Standard. If a particular pet buyer doesn't like that, they can go to those BYB who dont give a hoot about standard, health or anything and get one of those pups. More power to them.
 
If your not breeding for any particular standard, what breed are you breeding? The Joe Shmoe Breed?
 
I do my own tails and dew claws. Yes, Dew Claws too. Yup, and my pups live to see another day. Nveer had one with an infection or anything else. Without the worry of getting it caught on something and have it ripped off later on. (FYI: Most Cocker lines have dew-claws on front legs only). Unlike my Swissy whose front dew-claw ripped off at 11 1/2 months old and left a gash on his leg, I bet that felt good didn't....LOL!

ORIGINAL: Liesje

quick question: anti docking/cropping people-do you have declawed cats?

I didn't really know what dew claws were and Kenya has them in front (can they have them in back?).  I have no intention of removing them now.  If they catch on the agility equipment, I believe there are pads like wristbands you can buy to protect them.

 
Yes, dogs can have back dew claws. It's the standard on Great Pyrenees to have double dews on their back legs, meaning two. Rio has back and front dew claws because he was an accidental litter and the owner didn't get them done and shelters won't do it. If it rice wasn't so outrageous I would have gotten them removed, but getting him fixed was still way too much. My mom ruined her Pyr and had his removed at the same time she had him fixed, it cost her like $500.00. That's outrageous just to get a dog fixed and have their dew claws removed.
 
As for declawing cats, if it absolutely needs to be done I'm not against it. My cat is declawed because she was using her claws on my mom's leather furniture and my mom told me I was either getting her declawed or getting rid of her. Which option would you have chosen. And training a cat is not as easy as training a dog. I had to give my other cat back to the rescue I got her from as she was peeing on the furniture. I brought her to the vet and nothing was medically wrong, she told me what to do to try to retrain her to use the litter box but she wasn't having any of it. In that case, would you keep the cat and let it keep peeing on your furniture, or give it back to the rescue you got it from? Same as would you declaw your cat to keep it or get rid of it?
 
I have said before, I don't like docking, but it's done before I have a choice over it so it's not as bad as something I have a choice over. I prefer docking to cropping actually because it's done so early.
 
Shiva

Beau's the only dog I've ever had with dewclaws- front only.  His breeder leaves them on the front as it is optional in the breed standard.  He ripped his dew claw once and there was blood EVERYWHERE.  Somehow I think it might've been better had they been removed.  And have you seen back dewclaws?  They're not connected like the fronts and basically just get caught on things. 

ORIGINAL: timsdat
Crate it when I couldn't watch it and otherwise remove the inspiration for the chewing if training didn't work.  Is that an option for a cat???

 
No, removing things that cats use their claws(or in other cases, pee on) is not always an option. We couldn't remove the couches to keep my cat from clawing them. The cat that went back to the rescue was using her claws on the carpet, you can't always remove the carpet. Then when she started peeing on the furniture, what were we supposed to do, get rid of the furniture and sit and sleep on the floor? I'm sorry, but when a cat starts peeing on things and the cat isn't having any of being retrained not to, you can not keep the cat. I think it was just too many cats as she hasn't had any problems with the person who is fostering her. I didn't want to get rid of her, but I couldn't keep a cat that was peeing on the furniture. If she would have taken to the retraining, it would have been different, but she wouldn't.
 
Shiva 

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

most breeders dock at like 3 days and crop at around 8 weeks. The ears are usually fully healed before they go home. Breeders will automatically do this, unless there is a special request not to.

And, some breeders will not leave a tail.  The reason is that if you return the dog and they need to rehome it, some owners will not want the dog with tail.  Sad, but true.  I would love to have seen Sequoyah with her tail, but she was done before I was referred to the breeder.  Sioux, my Aussie mix, has a luxurious tail that I wouldn't trade for anything.  If it were up to me, they'd all go au naturel, but sometimes you just don't get the option.

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Soft Paws, or deal with it.

Don't you think though that if declawing was illegal that many people that don't have a patience or ability to train their cats and it would end up with many more cats being dumped in shelters.  I ask what is worse, a declawed cat or another one in a shelter where it probably will be put down. 

It is illegal in many areas of the world, and people still own cats there and they get along quite well.

http://www.theanimalspirit.com/declaw.html

ORIGINAL: Laurelin_429

Beau's the only dog I've ever had with dewclaws- front only.  His breeder leaves them on the front as it is optional in the breed standard.  He ripped his dew claw once and there was blood EVERYWHERE.  Somehow I think it might've been better had they been removed.  And have you seen back dewclaws?  They're not connected like the fronts and basically just get caught on things. 

 
 I know what cha mean my cocker has her front dew claws... and I really wish they wern't there.. I really worry about her getting them caught and having to rush her to the ER...  I IMAGINE MUCH MORE PAINFUL THEN HAVING THEM DONE AT BIRTH...  Especially with our upcomming vacation to the mountains.. I will have to watch her really close!!!