Kicking the dog

ron2

Now, did I describe the kick earlier as fairly accurately? That is, he didn't kick hard enough to cause damage that I could see and certainly not hard enough for a 20 yard field goal. But he was impacting the dog with some force.

corgipower

espencer

Chuffy

I also pet with my feet

As far as I'm concerned, you are kicking your dogs.

So if someone pets their dog with their hands, that would be hitting the dog?;)

Yeap, if somebody says that what CM is doing in the video is a kick, they might better call all these actions as "kicking" or "punching" the dog too, instead of "petting"

I wonder why he is not in jail by now if he is going around "kicking" dogs. 

I wonder if we should open a similar thread in the horse section complaining about people "kicking" the horse to make him move

Oh well, it does not change anything anyway, he is actually doing better than before, TV show in his 4th season, seminars, new 42 acre facility in LA, not bad despite being a "dog kicker", enjoy the thread
 

espencer

Oh well, it does not change anything anyway, he is actually doing better than before, TV show in his 4th season, seminars, new 42 acre facility in LA, not bad despite being a "dog kicker", enjoy the thread
 

Veering slightly off topic, but so what???? Hugh Hefner has a magazine, a mansion, and 3 girlfriends. There's a dude who did a tv show called Jack*ss.  Tom Cruise is a cultist. Hollywood success and lots of money are nice and all, but they don't say anything about the person in question. I find the DW entertaining. And that is what it is - entertainment.

 So after watching the clip I'm curious how many people would feel comfortable letting him do that to their dog.  No way he'd be doing that to my dog. 
 

Sure, I'll let him do that to my dog. She'll give him one of those "Don't hurt me! What did I ever do to you?" looks and everyone will take Penny's side and say "Awww, he is such a mean and nasty man to that poor little corgi." Even espencer.  

Food would work about a thousand times better with Penny than tapping her with your foot. All jokes aside, I would never let a 'dog psychologist' that uses aversives or corrections of any sort near my dog, because I strongly believe it's the last thing I would want or need to do to any animal in my care with some kind of issue. That's got nothing to do with CM as a person, or whether his methods work or not. I don't care if they work. I care about the way they work, and I don't like corrections. Just me. 

 If I saw someone on the street doing that to their dog I'd feel the need to intervene, wouldn't you?

 I would not have a problem using this technique on my own dog (especially the huge one) were he trying to get a hold of skateboards as they go past. An alternative to this correction would be a good strong leash correction, which to me would be more harmful than me using my foot to redirect his attention. It takes a sizable leash yank to redirect a 90+ lbs dog who is in the act of going after something, to me the little foot nudge is less traumatic, less likely to cause the dog to be even more reactive (leash yank when lunging can induce the dog to attack the object more vigorously, especially if the dog is a stubborn bully breed) and gets his attention allowing me to reward him for NOT going after the skateboard and for focusing his attention on me.

 I know with my own dog (Hektor), once he goes after something, food does not tempt him away, I have to redirect his attention to me and then I can use the food.

dgriego

As to whether I would ever allow anyone to use such a technique on my own dog. Of course I wouldn’t. I do not allow anyone to administer any type of physical correction to any of my dogs (except family living in household with dogs).

My thoughts exactly. And if anyone on the street had the gall to intervene while I was working with my own dog... Well, it wouldn't be pretty. LOL

mudpuppy

 If I saw someone on the street doing that to their dog I'd feel the need to intervene, wouldn't you?

No.

 - - -

And I wouldn't let CM near Sasha, at all. She would either be cornered into biting him or be traumatized for the rest of her life. Although, to be honest, she'd defer to him simply from the way he stands, and there'd never be a confrontation.

silverserpher

 So after watching the clip I'm curious how many people would feel comfortable letting him do that to their dog.  No way he'd be doing that to my dog. 
 

  I would not have a problem using this technique on my own dog (especially the huge one) were he trying to get a hold of skateboards as they go past. An alternative to this correction would be a good strong leash correction, which to me would be more harmful than me using my foot to redirect his attention.

and why exactly would you default to using violence to stop these sorts of behavior?  There are other, better, more effective ways to stop behaviors like this.  Do we know if this dog was actually permanently "fixed"?  I would be really surprised to hear that it actually worked long-term.

mudpuppy: If I saw someone on the street doing that to their dog I'd feel the need to intervene, wouldn't you?

No. Not if their dog was trying to go after say, my brother for example who skateboards, or any person/animal/car for that matter.

I correct my dog with a prong collar when out on walks. Alot of people don't like them, but it works for us (and it is used properly).  Now, if someone intervened when I was correcting him (like if he starts growling at a small dog) with the training collar, it would not be pretty.... Who are you to intereve with my dog?

Also, these people on the CM show call him to help....So, when you say "I would never let him do that to my dog!", why would he? You obviously wouldn't call him! If you don't like his show/methods then turn off your TV and take your own dog out for a walk during that half hour. I think we all need to give him some credit for rehabilitating the dogs that he has though; they're strays/ex-fighters/agressive dogs that were close to being put down, and now they live a happy, safe, non-agressive life.

Thats just my 2cents!

espencer

corgipower

espencer

Chuffy

I also pet with my feet

As far as I'm concerned, you are kicking your dogs.

So if someone pets their dog with their hands, that would be hitting the dog?;)

 

Yeap, if somebody says that what CM is doing in the video is a kick, they might better call all these actions as "kicking" or "punching" the dog too, instead of "petting"

I wonder why he is not in jail by now if he is going around "kicking" dogs. 

I wonder if we should open a similar thread in the horse section complaining about people "kicking" the horse to make him move

 

If you have to haul off and kick your horse to get him to move, then you are doing something wrong.  Most horse people believe that you should use as little pressure as necessary with any cue.  With the best horseman it is very difficult to be able to pick out the leg cues--they are not obvious because they do not have to be.   

Although I wouldn't want someone doing that to either of my dogs, it's not what I would call abusive.

My biggest concern with kicking any dog in the hindquarters is trauma to the hip region.  If someone where to "tap" Jack in the elbow region, it would be the nd of the session and would be sorely tempted to "tap" that individual in the facial region..... 

ETA:  Let's also consider that you are comparing a 1500 lb animal to a 50 lb animal...  

mudpuppy

 If I saw someone on the street doing that to their dog I'd feel the need to intervene, wouldn't you?

Having raised three children and forced to associate with many parents over the years I have seen many things I don’t approve of.   I know the importance of minding my own business when it comes to people and there children or pets.  Just because it’s not something you find acceptable it is truly not your business!

mudpuppy

and why exactly would you default to using violence to stop these sorts of behavior?

  I do not nor have I ever resorted to violence to stop behaviour. That is why we cannot debate, you see everything that is not me tossing my dog a steak as violence.

mudpuppy

There are other, better, more effective ways to stop behaviors like this.

Then use what works for yours, and by all means share how you would fix this problem.

mudpuppy

Do we know if this dog was actually permanently "fixed"? 

  No idea about this dog, it most likely was not fixed permanently since the owners most likely fall right back into their own bad habits as they do with most trainers.

 I was referring to what works with my dog.