Food Rewards - For and against..

Benedict, I don't see why you get to bash someone for their beliefs or their individual interpretation of a dog and owner relationship.  If someone says to me they use the anology of "paychecks" to describe their quality time with their dog, I come to a conclusion.  I don't state I have "a low opinion", I think I say thats not for me and I explain why.  It is not even close to those who characterize those that like CM or use corrections on their dog.  But yet I don't see you stepping in to berate their direct characterizations. 

If you have not gleaned the answer to your question there is no way you could understand and that is because of your own personal experience.  By the way, what is basic needs?

DPU

When the life value of the dog is increased and increased because of affection, not food, then the dog becomes less disposable.

I'm sorry, I've read this through several times and I still don't really understand what you mean. Could you clarify? What is a "life value" and how does affection (or food, for that matter) increase it?

Also -

Benedict

DPU

Some responsible breeders give up the dogs when the dog has used up its usefulness to breed.

 

Any breeder who does that is not responsible, by the very definition of the word. 

Agree completely! And I think everyone on this board agrees that irresponsible (as in, their dogs end up in a shelter) breeders should not breed at all.

timsdat

Benedict

Any breeder who does that is not responsible, by the very definition of the word. 

Thank you, beat me to it.

This is the kind of thing that is going to drive me away from this forum.  We had a discussion on this, a very long thread, and what I took away was that this is stardard practice amongst responsible breeders, that is, it is acceptable practice.  I remember only Mudpuppy and I saw the wrong in this. 

DPU

This is the kind of thing that is going to drive me away from this forum.  We had a discussion on this, a very long thread, and what I took away was that this is stardard practice amongst responsible breeders, that is, it is acceptable practice.  I remember only Mudpuppy and I saw the wrong in this. 

It is a "standard practice" for responsible breeders to dump dogs in shelters?!?!?!  Sorry, what planet are you living on? lol.  Responsible breeders hold first right of refusal.  They can actually seek legal action against people who dump the dog in a shelter.

Liesje

DPU

Good lord, no comparison and not even close in life values.  For some people, dogs are disposable because they don't perform or the dog has "issues".  When the life value of the dog is increased and increased because of affection, not food, then the dog becomes less disposable.

 

Huh?!?!?  Sorry I'm totally lost with that one.  I have one dog that is not very affectionate.  She is mildly affectionate with me and not at all affectionate with anyone else.  So her life is less valuable because of her inherent temperament? Ohhhhkaaaaay....... 

(emphasis added) 

 Please point out where I was bashing anyone?  I commended you for your relationship with you dogs.  I didn't say I think you have a low opinion of people who use the word "paycheck" to characterise their training relationship with their dogs, I said I think you must have a low opinion of people who use that word IF you believe that those dogs wind up at the shelter if that training method doesn't work.  I think it's unfair and demeaning to the people on THIS forum, as the majority of members are people who strive EVERY DAY to make their relationships with their dogs the best they can be, and wouldn't ever consider rehoming a family member - which their dogs are.  I certainly didn't bring CM into this. 

Basic needs:  Anything that cannot be justifiably withdrawn on a temporary or permanent basis.   

DPU.....forget it.....most folks get their dogs from a breeder situation and have no clue what it's like to deal with severe rescue situations......maybe, us rescuers need to rethink our situations, and re-adjust to the folks who have been spoiled by perfect adoptees and little pups that just got purchased......eh...I say .....no way.....

DPU

Some responsible breeders give up the dogs when the dog has used up its usefullness to breed.

Lesjie, where is the word "shelter".  I wasn't even thinking the word "shelter" so your 6th sense was not working this time.

DPU

timsdat

Benedict

Any breeder who does that is not responsible, by the very definition of the word. 

Thank you, beat me to it.

This is the kind of thing that is going to drive me away from this forum.  We had a discussion on this, a very long thread, and what I took away was that this is stardard practice amongst responsible breeders, that is, it is acceptable practice.  I remember only Mudpuppy and I saw the wrong in this. 

As I recall, and I have a good memory, a large part of that thread was about responsible breeders rehoming a dog that is no longer going to be used for breeding, but that is not the same thing AT ALL as dumping a dog in a shelter because it's no longer going to be used for breeding.  

DPU

Lesjie, where is the word "shelter".  I wasn't even thinking the word "shelter" so your 6th sense was not working this time.

It's right in your post, lol.  Shelter, rescue, dumped on the road, killed....I don't care.  Any breeder doing any of those things with their dogs is so far from responsible it's not even worth bringing up. 

DPU

This is the kind of thing that is going to drive me away from this forum.  We had a discussion on this, a very long thread, and what I took away was that this is stardard practice amongst responsible breeders, that is, it is acceptable practice

I remember being in that discussion and nowhere was it stated that it is a standard or acceptable practice to dump a dog in a shelter.

snownose

most folks get their dogs from a breeder situation and have no clue what it's like to deal with severe rescue situations......maybe, us rescuers need to rethink our situations, and re-adjust to the folks who have been spoiled by perfect adoptees and little pups that just got purchased.....

Sorry, once again I don't follow. Is there any reason a dog's personality/temperament should not be taken into account when deciding what to use as a reward/motivator for that particular dog? I think we can all agree that food rewards aren't necessarily the best option with some dogs (perhaps ones with difficult backgrounds, such as starvation) just as non-food-rewards also aren't necessarily the best option with some dogs (perhaps some "special needs" dogs, like mine)?

Does the use of food rewards or not really depend more on whether the dog is a rescue or not than on the individual dog's temperament?

snownose

DPU.....forget it.....most folks get their dogs from a breeder situation and have no clue what it's like to deal with severe rescue situations......maybe, us rescuers need to rethink our situations, and re-adjust to the folks who have been spoiled by perfect adoptees and little pups that just got purchased......eh...I say .....no way.....

I am not giving up.  My mission has always been to increase the life value of the shelter dog.  Even though we share our real experiences, there is not the least bit of emphathy shown.  I must admit I do give credos to KMac for extending empathy and she freely admits that she might feel differently if she did have the real experience.  I thought her stating why she uses food treats only for a short time in beginning of training would help as a bridge.  But she apparently has her own agenda. 

DPU

I am not giving up.  My mission has always been to increase the life value of the shelter dog.  Even though we share our real experiences, there is not the least bit of emphathy shown. 

Fine, and again, admirable...but perhaps we could do that in a different thread, I would happily participate.  Let's keep this one about food rewards, shall we?