Don't Fix It if It Ain't Broke

FourIsCompany

And, ron, what can I say? You just "feel" like one of the girls! I love a man who's in touch with his feminine side

Calgon, take me away ...

Several years ago, a friend had dared me to wear a dress for Halloween but I just couldn't do it. I've known some drag queens and I knew I wouldn't make it look right. The moustache gives a campy look to the whole thing.

Talk about feminine side, as a practical joke, one of my co-workers stuck a female hygeine product in my jacket at work. I was going to stick it in another co-worker's jacket but he turned around too soon. I forgot about for a few days and finally got around to throwing it out. Yes, it was still in the wrapper.

Can you feel the love in this room?!

All there are are ~words~ from people who don't know what they're talking about. Because they don't know me or my dogs.

There are quite a few people on this board who really know dogs - and in many ways that includes your dogs, whether you like that or not.  Doesn't mean they are right all the time, but discounting those opinions because they don't know your dogs personally is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

As to the issue of food, and obsession, it is hard for some people to get the hound mentality.  I'm just going to leave it at that.  I know that houndlove understands:-))))   BTW, a dog that seems "obsessed" by food or frisbee or tennis ball, and not desirous of touch at that moment, is STILL a highly trainable dog.  The dog clearly has something that motivates him - it's up to the trainer to use that in a constructive way to make progress.
 

 Mine is not the only dog on the planet always in the mood for a little more food. The veterinarian blog doolittler has several times referenced the canine tendency towards gluttony, and the medical problems that can be caused by not training and managing the environment so dogs don't literally eat themselves to death.

To some extent it's about prey drive. Hounds are one of the few breeds of dogs that has their entire prey sequence fully encouraged and bred for and intact. From track to chase to bite to kill to eat, they are bred for the whole sequence. For hounds, their job is about eating. It's about seeking out food and many hunters reward their hounds after a successful hunt by giving them the prey to eat. This is why beagles and coonhounds and bassetts and similar breeds are known for being in to their food--they are bred for it. They are bred to always want to hunt, which means they always want to eat. A hound doesn't hunt for his health. Labs have a similar rep, though they are just as famous for eating weird non-food items, which is also about their job: holding things in their mouth. They want to put anything in their mouth, and a significant portion of those items wind up going down the hatch. In both cases the eating things is kind of a breed trait--there's a reason why so many beagles are grossly obese--people actually think they're hungry and need more food because they act interested in food all the time. You have to have a bit of will power to own a scenthound and keep it fit and trim.

I don't know why everyone latches on to this food thing. I've seen lots of people post about how their dogs are obsessed with fetch, or their favorite tug toy, or sitting on laps, and no one has a problem with any of those "obsessions". Though I'm actually sitting here right now with Marlowe curled up in my arm pit and I'm eating corn chips and Marlowe hasn't even put his head up to sniff. If I stuck a chip in front of his face, he'd eat it, but he's relaxing right now after class and it's not the time for him to really seek out food.  

snownose

Look at it however you want......a dog actively avoiding positive contact with a handler/owner is not my idea of having a good relationship with one's dog.....Just my humble opinion, though.......

Okay, sorry, can't let that one go by. It's really just ridiculous. Why should any animal want positive contact whenever and wherever it is offered? Now my dog truly is food obsessed, and as a result the only thing I've trained her to do with food is sit before she gets food. This is more because I get impatient with her obsession than anything else. She won't give me filthy looks if I touch her when she's trying to eat or trying to play, but she will thoroughly ignore me, which I take to mean she just doesn't want cuddles any time, any place. Just like I don't want cuddles any time, any place. Some days my hare won't let me touch him at all, but my relationship with him is still better than my relationship with my dog, who loves a good petting and tummy rub. Sometimes my rabbit doesn't want pats either, especially if my hands smell wrong. And often even a friendly, snuggly cat doesn't feel like snuggles right now, thanks. I'd be more concerned if my dog was actively seeking positive contact with me all the time. That would seem needy and not quite right to me. Everyone should be happy with alone time now and then, no matter the species.

It bugs the heck out of me when my DH comes up and starts touching me if I am concentrating deeply on work.  It's distracting and unwanted at that moment, and I am annoyed by having to refocus my attention on what I was happily doing in the first place.  My DH and I have a wonderful relationship, filled with touchy-feely displays of affection....but that doesn't mean there aren't times when I would rather he kept his hands off.  

I also thought I'd add because I forgot to before, that Marlowe also does not really want to be pet and touched a lot when we're on walks. There's no food present at that time, but again it's just not the time or the place for that for him. When he's outside, as far as he is concerned he's working as well--he's sniffing the ground, looking around, keeping his leash manners, exerting self-control, and while he likes it when I say his name and tell him he's a good boy, if I go to pet his head, he merely tolerates it, he doesn't get into it and bring his head up to meet my hand and rub me back with it like he does when we're at home and it's time for snuggles. Conrad on the other hand enjoys being pet and rubbed when we're on walks and when we're training. In fact if I stop to pet him while we're walking, it doesn't matter if we're in the middle of the sidewalk, he'll sit down and then lay down and then flop over for a belly rub. They're just two different individuals with two different views on when it's time for PDAs and when it's not.

People just get so personally offended by the idea of dogs not wanting to be all over them 24/7/365 that unless a dog really makes it incredibly overtly clear that he doesn't appreciate it at certain times, most people only see what they want to see. They just assume that all dogs want to be pet all the time and go with that assumption despite their dogs trying to subtly dodge their hand, or giving them a look, or stoically tolerating with a grimace on their faces.

corvus

Okay, sorry, can't let that one go by. It's really just ridiculous. Why should any animal want positive contact whenever and wherever it is offered?

Excuse me? You find it strange that a dog wants to be around or wants to interact with the owner/handler during training? I use motivational training toys/praise, and none of my dogs try to actively avoid contact with me.....that includes rescues, fosters and even boarders.....

corvus

Sometimes my rabbit doesn't want pats either, especially if my hands smell wrong.

I really appreciate your input about your rabbit or hare, I have a rabbit, too.....but to be honest, dogs are way more social than rabbits, hares or even cats.....

houndlove

People just get so personally offended by the idea of dogs not wanting to be all over them 24/7/365 that unless a dog really makes it incredibly overtly clear that he doesn't appreciate it at certain times, most people only see what they want to see. They just assume that all dogs want to be pet all the time and go with that assumption despite their dogs trying to subtly dodge their hand, or giving them a look, or stoically tolerating with a grimace on their faces.

Just to clear things up, I don't follow my dogs around and force physical attention on them.......jeez......maybe, I just offer interesting interaction and my dogs like hanging around......one doesn't need to have food for that to happen.....

spiritdogs

Doesn't mean they are right all the time, but discounting those opinions because they don't know your dogs personally is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I discount certain opinions because the people making the Internet diagnoses don't have enough information to be making an analysis. Most of the so-called "data" that has been used to make diagnoses of my dogs were made up and assumed by these people. I discount these opinions because they don't know my dogs and therefore the data they have used to analyze them is seriously flawed. They made it up.
 

FourIsCompany

spiritdogs

Doesn't mean they are right all the time, but discounting those opinions because they don't know your dogs personally is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

I discount certain opinions because the people making the Internet diagnoses don't have enough information to be making an analysis. Most of the so-called "data" that has been used to make diagnoses of my dogs were made up and assumed by these people. I discount these opinions because they don't know my dogs and therefore the data they have used to analyze them is seriously flawed. They made it up.
 

I don't know why you would put so much stock in taking advice from a TV show, then.   Carla, I honestly think this thread is more about your feelings of control, rather than what is actually right or wrong about any advice that might be given here.  The really simple solution is to disregard advice with which you don't agree and try that which you do find helpful. 

 Maybe I also offer interesting interactions and my dogs enjoy hanging around too. They just have different definitions of "interesting interactions".

I just don't understand this food obsession that seems to be endemic here. It's food. It's a major life need and most living things are pretty enthusiastic about it. Big freakin' whoop. I think this is where we get in to the core philisophical difference. To me, dogs are animals. They are like every other animal in most ways. No one would be freaking out about my relationship with my cats if I were to say they come a-runnin' when I get the dried fish treats out, everyone would laugh and tell jokes about how their cat can hear a can opener from a mile away. And no one freaks out about the many, many cats who are not "lap cats" and don't really like to be touched all the time by just anyone. People joke all the time about how they're just servants to their cats, who rule the house with an iron paw and yet we don't have any Cat Whisperers running around telling us how weak and feeble-minded we are for "treating our cats like humans" and not giving them exercise and discipline before we give them affection. So why are dogs so incredibly different that the very idea of motivating them to behave in some very un-dog-like ways with something that pretty much anything with a pulse values and enjoys sends people in to absolute paroxysms?

spiritdogs

I don't know why you would put so much stock in taking advice from a TV show, then.

spiritdogs

I honestly think this thread is more about your feelings of control

spiritdogs

The really simple solution is to disregard advice with which you don't agree and try that which you do find helpful. 

FourIsCompany

I discount certain opinions because the people making the Internet diagnoses don't have enough information to be making an analysis. Most of the so-called "data" that has been used to make diagnoses of my dogs were made up and assumed by these people. I discount these opinions because they don't know my dogs and therefore the data they have used to analyze them is seriously flawed. They made it up.

Correct!  A perfect example is the Behavior video thread.  I like that thread because we express our interpretations and opinions given what is before us.  When given more factual information and also proof, we learn more about how that diagnosis was wrong or right.  But then again, some members can not bring themselves to retrack their original diagnosis. 

Its kind of funny, I discount those with opinions that are firm and rigid.  I trust the opinion of those that use this forum to give advise and also take advise.

houndlove

People joke all the time about how they're just servants to their cats, who rule the house with an iron paw and yet we don't have any Cat Whisperers running around telling us how weak and feeble-minded we are for "treating our cats like humans" and not giving them exercise and discipline before we give them affection. So why are dogs so incredibly different that the very idea of motivating them to behave in some very un-dog-like ways with something that pretty much anything with a pulse values and enjoys sends people in to absolute paroxysms?

Yeah, my cats can hear the can top pop....and here they come.......I would never think to have cats around me all the time, it's simple, they are not as social as dogs......there is no comparison......but, my issue with the food is when a person claims that the dog actively avoids contact with the human and is so focused on the food........I have gone into great details in other threads why I don't like to use food as a motivator (starving rescues) and maybe, just maybe to me having a dog snubbing me to get to food is just foreign.......they all get their meals and all get plenty of treats...........

houndlove

To me, dogs are animals. They are like every other animal in most ways.

You may be alone or with only a few with this sentiment.  I can't say we are different in measuring their life values, but such a belief could be interpretted that way.  From doing rescue work, I have learned to love the DOG, no just my residence dogs.  I definitely draw a distinction and feel more for the domestic dog than the wild sparrow.