Dog Community

Posted : 11/1/2006 8:18:17 AM

OK, I stand corrected. I THOT it was a general question that anyone was welcome to answer. Which I did referencing only my personal experience.

dogslife

Posted : 11/1/2006 8:21:16 AM

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: houndlove

I think most of us said no corrections in the crate, but then it was brought to our atteniton that this situation isn't really a "crate" in the way we use them, so our opinions don't really apply.

Ok, lets pretend it is his create, then that means the dog can do whatever and then just run into the create because he knows no one will touch him there? like keep barking for hours? i cant correct the behavior and correct the barking because he is in his "safe place"?

I think espencer really does want to talk about that issue of the crate and correcting, even if it were from a different thread. He wanted to hear about this particular aspect as he restates in the middle of this thread.

glenmar

Posted : 11/1/2006 8:26:08 AM

Ok, in THAT case......

the worst correction I've ever used while my dogs are crated is when they decided that an early morning yodel fest was appropriate. Requesting QUIET wasn't cutting it so I fell back on the old water spray bottle AND followed that up with the reward of being let out when they WERE quiet. Now all I have to say is "that will do" or EXCUSE me???? and I get instant silence.

dogslife

Posted : 11/1/2006 8:31:32 AM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Ok, in THAT case......

the worst correction I've ever used while my dogs are crated is when they decided that an early morning yodel fest was appropriate. Requesting QUIET wasn't cutting it so I fell back on the old water spray bottle AND followed that up with the reward of being let out when they WERE quiet. Now all I have to say is "that will do" or EXCUSE me???? and I get instant silence.

Yes, that has happened with us as well. When they were babies it was different. There was the need to get them "potty trained". But when they did that howling thing in the night, a simple "that is enough" in a firm voice worked. This only had to happen twice. One of the times however a dog was having diarrhea and needed to get outside and cleaned up. Not to be punished or scolded.

So, it isn't all about uniform behavior but understanding your critter and what is needed and when.

editing in; I should have said ..uniform "response to" behavior...in the last sentence.

glenmar

Posted : 11/1/2006 8:36:08 AM

Yes, there is a major difference in "I GOTTA GO" and the join the rest of the pack in a yodel fest just cuz we CAN.......and when you have multiple dogs, the joining in seems to be expected by the others. But I can tell the difference between the routine yodeling cuz someone got up to use the HUMAN bathroom in the nite and the urgent urge to purge! [

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wisewilddog

Posted : 11/1/2006 9:46:39 AM

Here's a question...what breed of wild canines that live in packs...use dens as adults...beyond raising their young? When that question is answered correctly, I have a few follow up questions. The question is not directed at any one person...it's just an open question? And it does have something to do with the question of crates.

glenmar

Posted : 11/1/2006 9:53:31 AM

Clearly the answer is none, however, dogs are NOT wolves in the sense that they have been domesticated for years and years. I watch my dogs head to crates when they want some peace and quiet, a bit stressed, or just to be left alone. The crate IS a safe place for them. Otherwise, why would they stay in them at nite when the doors are not latched? Because they LIKE being in their crates for some activities.

dogslife

Posted : 11/1/2006 10:00:15 AM

Not to detract from this thread, but Ron just gave a nice synthesis of what would make sense as to why this trainer used a racket and how it worked with this dog. It makes sense because in Ron's explanation, it is not a tool for punishment yet a tool being held up for the bad behavior and then put down for the good behavior. More like a hand signal. Which is what I would prefer, but considering that this dog is nearly wild in his behavior, some safer encouragement of good behavior is necessary, in a kind of an emergent way.

I still maintain that the situation is unsafe, for all concerned. Esp, fam and friends.

espencer

Posted : 11/1/2006 10:08:47 AM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

In fairness, the "other" place wasn't set up at the time this thread was started. And even tho the OP is a fan of CM, he avoided the example because it would have MADE this into a CM thread. And, I'm thinking that it was probably NOT his intention for this to turn into a CM thread. I'm not being naive, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

You are totally right

ORIGINAL: dogslife

I think espencer really does want to talk about that issue of the crate and correcting, even if it were from a different thread. He wanted to hear about this particular aspect as he restates in the middle of this thread.

You are right also

dogslife

Posted : 11/1/2006 10:33:03 AM

I watch my dogs head to crates when they want some peace and quiet, a bit stressed, or just to be left alone. The crate IS a safe place for them. Otherwise, why would they stay in them at nite when the doors are not latched? Because they LIKE being in their crates for some activities.

My two Siberians will actually sleep together in one crate on occasion. [

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glenmar

Posted : 11/1/2006 10:40:34 AM

Mine will too....but only when they are "invited" by the crate owner......they've been told too many times to respect one anothers space so they are very polite about it.

dogslife

Posted : 11/1/2006 10:43:29 AM

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Mine will too....but only when they are "invited" by the crate owner......they've been told too many times to respect one anothers space so they are very polite about it.

LOL! Since mine are still kind of babies, 8mos. and siblings, they seem to share everything without a thought. They have known each other since before they were born. It is so much fun to watch these two. They have quite a dynamic going.

glenmar

Posted : 11/1/2006 10:49:10 AM

LOL! You are LUCKY. My two sibes are different as nite and day. Tyler is mild mannered and totally laid back and Theo is aflicted with "little big mans disease"....and he can be a tyrant. He didn't want to stay outside this morning so he is LEASHED to me since he's been terrorizing Tyler. And Tyler is a wuss....TWICE The's size, but just goes belly up over the little terror! All it would take is ONE good paw to the neck and that would end Theo's reign of "terror"!

spiritdogs

Posted : 11/1/2006 12:17:49 PM

ORIGINAL: willowchow

This topic comes from another thread and i think it would be good to know what do your think

That is the first sentence of the original post and that "thread" was a CM thread where they were discussing the episode seen Monday night.

EDITED TO SAY--I don't understand why you posted here Anne when this was clearly about CM at this point even though it was not in his "area". I'm not saying I don't want to read your information but this is three pages long and clearly about CM and yet you posted here. WHY??? Of the first three posts two of the three clearly say "show" and "CM".

Notice that I only saw this thread today, after the CM section was started, so thanks for the clarification, Glenda.
Lori, I'm getting the distinct feeling that you wish I'd go away. But, this thread was started as a general behavior thread, not only for those who like or dislike CM, so it seems that I am entitled to post my feelings on the method of chasing a dog into its crate until the moderator tells me that I should not. The fact that I mentioned CM was because we all know, despite the fact that some of us want to pretend it's not about the show, is that the reason we are discussing this topic at all is because he did just that on the show Monday night. So, for the record, I think it was wrong, and did nothing to solve the overriding problem that ACD has, and, in fact, may have set the dog up to fail. JMHO

willowchow

Posted : 11/1/2006 12:31:09 PM

Anne--I certainly don't wish you'd go away. I think you know I've used all your advice and I've told you so many times.

However, you said this above---

See, we positive people now have no place to hide...no safe crate.

And that is what I was responding too. But, then you post that you are entitled to post here. Still don't understand your reasoning. . .no safe place, yet still going on???

And, I don't like that-- "we" postive people. I'm all for positive training but like many other people also like CM.

And THIS is why these threads turn bad. I'd very much like your opinion without all the "we" postive people and all the other comments. But, of course you're entitled to post whatever you want I suppose.

Create, "safe place" or "you cant touch me here"?