How Far Are You Willing to Go?

The inuit, in breeding sled dogs, would cull the ones that don't make the cut. Primarily due to limited resources to feed the team. It was a long standing tradition until recent times. While at the same time the govt wants to protect the Inuit the way want to protect the Native American, they don't want to allow them to cull. And it literally takes an act of congress or parliament to allow them to hunt seal.
 
I imagine the same problem will be faced with the chukchi, who also hunt seal on the other side of the Bering Sea. And, I imagine, the chukchi culled their litters, when necessary. (History note: the chukchi ("reindeer people") are an "aboriginal" tribe of people in far northeastern Siberia. The chukchi dog became known later as the Siberian Husky)
 
It pains us with our modern ethics for the humane treatment of pets and animals but how else can we deal with problems, limited resources, etc.
 
Shadow has the makings of a great sled dog. But I don't think he will, as of yet, be top knotch in off-leash obedience, though I work on it. In which endeavor would he be devalued or too much of a liability? Outside of the sled dog world, he shouldn't exist. And here I am, with no sled, not even a cart. So, we work on obedience and who knows what the future may bring.
 
From a stockman's point of view, it might not be unethical. Just as easily as they take a cow to the slaughterhouse, they may put down a dog that is a liability or doesn't fit in their plan. And before that sentiment gets lost, it has been suggested here that an aggressive dog that doesn't respond to the gentler forms of training should be PTS to conserve resources for the biddable dogs. Is that not culling in a way? A rose by any other name...
 

ORIGINAL: brookcove

Does anyone have a "see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil" emoticon? Meanwhile I'll just use this one: []

 
Here ya go 
 

i still dont know what scruffing is...[&:]

Scruffing is when someone grabs the dog by the scruff of the neck. It's usually done to 'tell the dog who's boss', i.e. when the dog is being bad. Sometimes people will shake a dog after they get it by the scruff of the neck, or pin it to the ground. It can also be used to refer to picking an animal up by the scruff of the neck.

Renee - [sm=wink2.gif]

I think of scruffing as saying, "Remember me? I feed you!" Usually reserved for a) dog harrassing sheep without cause or b) dog runs sheep over top of me. I'll also do a teeny baby scruff on a puppy that has forgotten who feeds him. I just walk up and tug his ear a bit - not any harder than I'd do just playing. I think it kind of tells the puppy that I remember where he is even if he's forgotten where I am. I'm not sure you'd need to do this on a dog you weren't preparing for livestock work. I certainly didn't with Zhi - she was positive trained all the way. Of course, her recall sucks and she acts like I whip her regularly when I catch her! Possibly my companion training methods need some adjustment. [8|]

As a horseowner who has farmers in her family, I can certainly see why someone would shoot a dog for going after their livestock.  I probobly wouldn't use that as my first option, but if the situation continued I might be forced into it.  However, one of my horses is pretty dog aggressive, and being shot would likely be preferable to what he would do if he got the chance.
 
As far as shooting working dogs.  I just don't know.  I question the ability to find really good homes for those dogs that have been washed out of the work they are bred to do.  Is the average pet owner going to be able to meet the needs of a working bred coon hound, border collie, or hog dog?  I think with all of the dogs who would make very good pets for the average pet owner being put down or spending long months in rescue, tough choices have to be made.  I would much rather see a dog shot than dumped on the side of the road to fend for itself.

The way I have scruffed Shadow. I grab the fur on the back of his neck gathering it into my hand, like you might a handful of blanket. Not painful but holding. Most of the time, I don't have to put any pressure, Shadow downs and rolls himself. This is similar to the way momma dog stops a pup from either doing something it shouldn't or doing something to rough. Momma cats, wild and domestic, do it, too. To me, it's a physical behavior that some dogs respond to, just as some dogs respond well to direct eye contact, others don't. It shouldn't be a painful thing but it should stop the train of thought, even momentarily so that you can release and give a command for the desired behavior and reward that.

ORIGINAL: ron2

You set Glenda up for that, you scoundrel.

 
I believe SHE is the one who said something like, "mine are bigger than yours."  If you expect me to let a soft ball like that go by, you have far more faith in me than I deserve.  []

After reading this thread I have a better understanding of why you put a working dog down.  I still find it sad but what is the alternatives?  Shelters are already overcrowed and their arn't enough adoptions to keep up with the demand.  I know someone who had to put a truely aggressive Swissy to sleep, she wishes the breeder or rescue had done it before it became hers because there signs that pup had issues before he brought home around her children. 
 
As for a bullet being less humane than a needle, I don't agree.  It's just the idea of it that "seems" less humane.
 
It's just sad but you know what, off subject, I wish I could have used culling on my mother when she suffered from Cancer for 8 months.[&o]

Hold on cowboy!  I was NOT referring to my figurative round things....I was asking if the two of you GUYS were doing the "mine are bigger than yours" thing....or going way back maybe my Daddy makes more money than your Daddy kinda thing.
 
If we want to get personal, we ALL know that I am the undisputed owner of the biggest round things...literal or figurative.....

Ya know what?  As the OP, I think this thread has gotten wayyyyy off track - it was supposed to be about how far you would go in your individual training methods, yet it has evolved into something quite different.  Why not get back OT and tell us how far you are willing to go in training your own dog.  

ORIGINAL: glenmar

If we want to get personal, we ALL know that I am the undisputed owner of the biggest round things...literal or figurative.....

 
Absolutely and I am humbled in the presence of greatness.  []

It doesn't seem to ME that it is that far OT, Anne.  Looking at the last several posts, I see discussion of scruffing and putting a dog down who doesn't live up to his expectations.  What IS that if not discussing how far one would go in training their dog?

OK, I'll concede that your figurative round things are likely a TAD larger than mine, Anne, being that you drove a big rig and all......[]
 
And, the furthest I've EVER gone, which was major for me, was using a prong collar on Thor.  That's my limit and one I felt enormous guilt about.

awh...   a couple of post with a little humor is nice, it helps to "redirect" the emotions which is what ususally does take a subject of track.[8|]
 
It's an intersting thread.[]