How Far Are You Willing to Go?

    • Gold Top Dog
    i don't really have any useful comments here, the only physical attention my dog gets is petting and playing, and to be honest he has had no formal training, i just let him be himself, and so far he is a great dog, other than nail cutting issues. either i got lucky and just have a naturally good dog, or we trained him without knowing.
     
    anyway, i just wanted to ask what exactly "scruffing" is?
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: houndlove

    And yet, I lived in constant fear that someone was going to shoot my dog rather than just calling the dang dog catcher if there was ever an issue.

     
    If your dog wasn't running loose, on someone elses property, why would you live in "constant fear?"  And if your dog was running loose on someone else's property, harrassing their livestock, I guess you would just have to live with the consequences of your decision as an irresponsible owner.
    • Gold Top Dog
    at my dad's when a dogs time has come they shoot it. it makes me sad that the dog is going to die, but i have never really felt that it was inhumane. they dont just maim it and leave it to bleed out, they shoot it directly in the head at close range, it is so quick the dog doesnt even know it happened, and they never let the dog see the gun. i would never do this to my own dog, but i dont really feel it is any worse than having a strange man inject chemicals into it and watch it slip away, quite often in a strange place, or at least a place and person the dog is not very fond of, i mean my dog doesnt hate the vet, but its not his favorite place. i dont personally see how that is any easier on the dog, it seems like it is just easier for the owner.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Normally I don't do "well said" type of posts Becca, but in this case, I will make an exception.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Jen, what would be the difference between shooting and just selling the failed dogs as pets with a spay/neuter agreement to get them out of the breeding line? Or droppign them off at a pound or shelter where they'll get fixed before being adopted out?  It's not 1920 any more.


    Oops! I was never advocating culling by killing the dogs, just trying to put it into historical perspective. I think we need to practice a spay/neuter form of culling today. But I probably wouldn't try to make it illegal for breeders to cull dogs. As someone said earlier, sometimes there are fates worse than death. Luckily, the tide is turning and most breeders look down on the practice.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: probe1957

    ORIGINAL: espencer
    Killing the dog would make the owners actually open a law suit for cruelty, i can always say that it was to defend my livestock but that would make the things more difficult, i dont know i'm not a lawyer, im just guessing [;)]


    I am not GUESSING.  I KNOW you are wrong.


     
    So you know that i am wrong when i say the owners can open a law suit against you for killing his dog? i was guessing about making the things more difficult but i know i am not wrong when i say the owners can do that to you
     
    Are you a lawyer? thats the only way that you can say openly I am wrong [:'(]
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: espencer

    So you know that i am wrong when i say the owners can open a law suit against you for killing his dog? i was guessing about making the things more difficult but i know i am not wrong when i say the owners can do that to you

    Are you a lawyer? thats the only way that you can say openly I am wrong [:'(]


    Okay, I stand corrected, since you want to split hairs.  Of course you COULD sue, this is America, but you most certainly would not prevail.  It is absolutely legal to shoot a dog who is harrassing livestock.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh for crying out loud...is this the internet version of mine are bigger than yours??
     
    Billy is right.....while anyone can bring a frivilous lawsuit for just about any reason, it isn't going to likely even get to court.  And more and more courts are fining folks for filing "nuisance" suits and wasting their time.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: glenmar

    Oh for crying out loud...is this the internet version of mine are bigger than yours??

    Billy is right.....while anyone can bring a frivilous lawsuit for just about any reason, it isn't going to likely even get to court.  And more and more courts are fining folks for filing "nuisance" suits and wasting their time.

     
    I am willing to stipulate that yours are bigger than mine.  [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    In that case, seeing that mine are only figurative, you have my DEEPEST sympathy....or rather, your wife does. [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: glenmar

    In that case, seeing that mine are only figurative, you have my DEEPEST sympathy....or rather, your wife does. [:D]

     
    Excuse me.  My mind was on something a little higher up and therefore, my mind was more out of the gutter, than yours.  [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Excuse me. My mind was on something a little higher up and therefore, my mind was more out of the gutter, than yours.

     
    I am breaking my rule about responding in this thread. Maybe I can start another argument just by my presence.
     
    You set Glenda up for that, you scoundrel.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Does anyone have a "see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil" emoticon? Meanwhile I'll just use this one: [:o]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Dang it, Rebecca. No one had replied here in a while. I thought I was upholding my reputation as a "natural-born thread killer." That my pee would be the last one on the fire hydrant.
     
    Dang it, again ...
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    What annoys me about this whole argument is that it's impossible to resolve it. On the one hand, my aunt's perfectly safe lab cross got shot because she meandered across a grazier's paddock one morning. She shouldn't have been there and the farmer had the right to shoot her, but he also knew the dog and could see that she was no threat to his sheep.

    On the other hand, a pack of dogs killed our neighbour's 2 goats that were tethered in our front yard just a couple of nights after they were taken out of the safety of the fenced yard. I didn't see the bodies, but I saw the amount of blood and it was pretty heartbreaking thinking of how terrified those poor goats would have been, tied up and unable to get away.

    We have pig dogs over here as well. On the one hand, the pig hunters are taking care of a serious pest species. Pigs are devastating to our environment. On the other hand, sometimes they're irresponsible and the dogs run off to breed with dingoes the moment they're released and 12 months later you've got dingoes running around with the head of a mastiff. A little girl not far from here got killed by pig dogs because she climbed under the fence to play with them. She knew the dogs, but had been warned never to go into the yard on her own. No, they don't make real good pets. We don't have catahoulas over here, and our cattle dogs aren't big enough to take on pigs.

    When it comes down to it, it's too big an issue to make all-consuming, generalised decisions about. The way I see it, an animal doesn't deserve a whole lot more regard from us just because its brethren happen to make good companions. I happen to think cows can make wonderful companions. And horses. And yet, our wild brumbies are making such a horrendous mess of our high country that we've little choice but to hunt them down before the whole ecosystem up there collapses. I might be insane, but I believe all domesticated animals have been so altered by us because of our purpose-breeding and there have been so many enormous success stories from it all that there's little point in stopping now. And really, purpose-breeding inevitably produces unsuitable individuals and you have to do something sensible with them. Whatever you decide, it's going to be up to you as the person who's deliberately brought these animals into the world. As long as the hunters/breeders are responsible and care for their animals, I don't think any of us are in a position to tell them how they should be dealing with their failures. I think of it in the same light as I think of my wild hare. I have had people look at him, exclaim over how beautiful he is, and then say "When are you going to let him go? He doesn't belong in a cage." Well, no, he doesn't, but he's coping with the cushy lifestyle very well. I love him enough that I would let him go the moment he wasn't happy anymore, and no one has the knowledge or the right to make that decision for me. It's between me and him.

    I adore dogs, but I don't like people deciding that a dog's life is worth more than a cow's life. Or a sheep's life. It's not. It's not worth more than a human life, but someone gave us the smarts to impose our will on all those animals. What are you going to do about it? Deny what you are? The best you can do is reconcile yourself with it in a way that makes you feel comfortable. For me, that's acknowledging that humans are in control of all the animals in their care and can decide on a whim whether it lives or dies. I believe that kind of responsibility can, if treated with the gravity it deserves, do a lot to help build a person's character and help them understand what nature is all about.

    Incidentally, I have seen cattle killed at a slaughterhouse. Here, they put a bolt in the top of their heads. They don't even know what hit them it's that instant.