Only one.

That is the hilarious part of the whole thing. I don't think any of us hate CM.  Hell, most of us agree with (and use) some of his methods.

We disagree with a few of his methods..  I think that is what gets us in trouble. It's almost like you have to give this guy your all or you are left out of the flock.

 There is but one that can truly being said as actually hating CM.

 Hate may be a strong word, but...yunno.

We probably don't have to mention her name (snickersnort) but she most likely wouldn't care if we did.

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

That's us silly!  [8|]  Duh.  We hate CM.  I personally have a white sheet in my airing cupboard, I was thinking of fashioning a nice outfit from it and acquiring a large stick to go round bashing CMs methods with.  [][][][] 

Seriously, that's Off topic and its not even amusing so you have no excuse.  Tssst.  Not that anyone can remember what the topic is what with all  the talk of socks and Espencer hoping I'll take my underwear off but there you go.....

Well for the record I don't hate him.  I don't really care about him one way or another.  He's just another trainer doing his job, execpt he's doing it on TV.  So who is this one guaranteed "hater"??

If you don't know...I'm not telling you. [sm=proud.gif]

You actually don't think that I was talking about you, do you? You are more the "questioning some of his methods" type.

I really don't think this person has it within her to hate, per se...I think strongly dislike/disagree would be a more appropriate word..

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

Well for the record I don't hate him.  I don't really care about him one way or another.  He's just another trainer doing his job, execpt he's doing it on TV.  So who is this one guaranteed "hater"??

ORIGINAL: JM

That is the hilarious part of the whole thing. I don't think any of us hate CM.  Hell, most of us agree with (and use) some of his methods.

No, what's hillarious is this poster's own amusement and delight in disrupting any converstion where CM comes up to stop the flow of information which might prove helpful.

And yet, there was no constructive answer to the OP's question. If one agree's with at least "one" thing, they should be able to post it.

ORIGINAL: JM

We disagree with a few of his methods..  I think that is what gets us in trouble. It's almost like you have to give this guy your all or you are left out of the flock.

 
There's that "we" and "us" again. Pesky little borg! Resistance is not futile! We will remain individuals with independant thoughts and not be consumed by the APDT "Positive Only" collective!!

And, this is just another implication that individuals who wish to discuss CM, are blind followers who don't understand or incorporate other methods and philosophies at all. This is an insult to any who wish to discuss him in a possitive light and share information.

ORIGINAL: JM

There is but one that can truly being said as actually hating CM.

Hate may be a strong word, but...yunno.

Looks like the shoe fits perfectly, Cinderella.

ORIGINAL: jm

We probably don't have to mention her name (snickersnort) but she most likely wouldn't care if we did.

More gradeschool, glib, snide sidetracking. Which has now completely derailed yet another CM thread. But, that is the goal at hand, eh?

And in reference to Zuel...well, I'm sure she would be proud at the lack of respect these two posters are showing towards anyone else who does not believe in their (her) methods.

Nicely done! You've learned well from the master of attack, misrepresent, and smear all who do not agree with you.

Bravo! [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

Well for the record I don't hate him.  I don't really care about him one way or another.  He's just another trainer doing his job, execpt he's doing it on TV.  So who is this one guaranteed "hater"??

See? it was useless, we are still off topic (and you are helping with that) [8D], i'm not going to lie, i wanna know the "hater's" name too []

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

Can I bet TWO pairs of Homer Simpson socks (guaranteed no holes) that jenhuedephol's intelligent, positive, pretty much on topic answer will go completely ignored in favour of more off topic silliness? 

You complain that jenhuedephol's post will be ignored but you are guilty of staying off topic as any other []

ORIGINAL: espencer

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

Well for the record I don't hate him.  I don't really care about him one way or another.  He's just another trainer doing his job, execpt he's doing it on TV.  So who is this one guaranteed "hater"??

See? it was useless, we are still off topic (and you are helping with that) [8D], i'm not going to lie, i wanna know the "hater's" name too []

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

Can I bet TWO pairs of Homer Simpson socks (guaranteed no holes) that jenhuedephol's intelligent, positive, pretty much on topic answer will go completely ignored in favour of more off topic silliness? 

You complain that jenhuedephol's post will be ignored but you are guilty of staying off topic as any other []

Espencer,

The "hater" who JM so proudly champions and who would be in agreement of her "good" work in Cesar bashing would be Jean Donaldson, or Zuel if you prefer. She's known throughout the dog world for her very nasty behavior towards anyone who does not embrace her personal view of dog "training". Cesar has just been her main target because of his public visability. She is the undisputed queen of emotional, inflamatory verbage.

Don't take my word for it. Do a net search of "Jean Donaldson Cesar Millan" and you will find her anti-Cesar site.

I answered Jen's post. But that is irrelevent to these two. [8D]

These disruptors came here with a specific goal, which they have achieved and they will continue with this behavior until the mods stop them and enforce the rules of the CM forum.

Rules which are not enforced, are no rules at all. But, Cesar could tell you that. []

Looks like they need a few "rules, boundaries, and limitations" instilled upon their sad, pathetic, and out of control little a$$es. 

espencer, your post is dead on.......
 
This is way off topic, it was running smoothly until ....well, you know the rest.
 
Go back to page 1, and you can see where it derailed.
I have noticed one thing though, people are afraid to poke their heads out until one poster shows enough strength to make the first move, then the rest fall in.......
 
 
 
One other thing CM has taught me is to level my emotions when dealing with my dogs, that would be on top of calm and assertive.

ORIGINAL: snownose

I have noticed one thing though, people are afraid to poke their heads out until one poster shows enough strength to make the first move, then the rest fall in.......

Great observation and you are spot-on in noticing the pattern. In this case we have a master-sniper and her co-hort who usually is only a bandwagon jumper once someone else gets the ball rolling. Looks like the master-baiter is giving himself a rest today from opening baiting threads. But, I've watched the tactics switch from time to time.

I've been noticing these patterns for awhile now. I can always spot a "Positive Only" extremist with an agenda the minute they enter this area of the board and start their attacks. [:-]

Interesting that all of their misrepresentations, misinformation, lies, and smear tactics can be found on Zuel's anti-CM ropaganda site. No original bashings going on here. It's all straight from the Minion of Gozar herself.

Disrupt the flow of knowledge and understanding, and people won't have the truth to diffute the lies. Pretty simple, really. []


Okay, let's see if we can get back on topic. [8|]

ORIGINAL: snownose

One other thing CM has taught me is to level my emotions when dealing with my dogs, that would be on top of calm and assertive.

I remember a lot of times when I would see someone try to take on a serious tone with their dog, they would slip emotion or anger into it to get their point across and show you "mean it". 

I see parents do this with their kids, too. Suppernanny teaches calm and assertive techniques to parents in a similar manner as Cesar works with dog owners and their dogs.

Sometimes, there is too much permissiveness allowed one minute, and then impatience and a shortness of temper the next. I think consistancy and feeling that the situation can be handled with a calm demeanor, is very valuable.

I agree with keeping the emotional state calm when dealing with dogs, horses, kids, etc... Too much emotion can make us seem unstable.

Calm leaders who have everything under control (including their emotions) instill trust and security in their followers, who will then take direction from their leader, naturally. 

For me it was Jan Fennell back in the nineties.  Again a lot of stuff I didn't agree with in her method, but a lot that was valuable.....  I kicked myself for not seeing the "calm" thing before it was pointed out to me.  It should be so obvious.

Thanks! I'll see if I can find any of her stuff. I kicked myself, too when I first watched Cesar. He made it so obvious how getting frustrated and angry worked against you even if you weren't yelling or hitting your dog. I'd read plenty of books and watched plenty of DVD's about how to judge the dog's state of mind but most really didn't touch on the *handler's* state of mind.

Oh, yeah.  The other thing I learned from CM - he seems to be more polite than some. 

I don't even watch CM but I have learned something very important from him as well. Now grant it my understanding of CM has basically comes from reading threads on idog. I don't really practice any particular training metod. I basically do my own thing. The only time I've ever laid eyes on the man was on espence's links. Sorry, just my looong way of saying I am totally neutral on the whole CM debate.

Anyways, I learned that a really good dog trainer (professional or not) trains with natural instinct. Gut feelings.

Forgive me if I go on, but I find myself quite reluctant to post much anymore. It seems to me that in order to have any precieved value here, one is expected to have read dozens of books, research papers, personally handled and cured every form of behavioural issue on every breed of dog. And by god, you had better beable to back any claim you make up with hard core science!

What ever happened to just using love, common sense and instinct. Although interesting, I think dog phycology is over rated. Therory vs Practice

I'm with you, Denise! You said a lot there and I completely agree with you. I hope you keep posting, because you to have a great way of adapting all of the information you are finding and making it work for you and your puppers! That's exactly what I am trying to do.

Do you know what I remember mostly about the CM shows?  Was the show with the author of  the lab who had died.

CM took the new lab, chhht him a few times.  The dog shivered and quivered.  The owner then made a reference to CM's actions as intimidating the dog...to which CM replied..

No...dominating.   CM really emphasized the word. Even used his finger for better emphasis.  Almost like one would do when chhht-ing.

The guy had a bit of an incredulous look.  He is a journalist.  If he knows anything, it is words

So I looked up dominate:  1.to rule over; govern; control.

Then I looked up intimidate: 1.to make timid; fill with fear.

So, what have I learned from CM?  To use a dictionary more often.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Oh, yeah.  The other thing I learned from CM - he seems to be more polite than some. 

So I looked up dominate:  1.to rule over; govern; control. Then I looked up intimidate: 1.to make timid; fill with fear.

So you don't think it is possible to rule, govern or control without fear? Am I understanding this right? I've seen that episode a couple times and the only time I remember Gracie shaking was when she was excited about the chicken. Lucy shakes like it's 10º below zero when she sees the resident squirrel. And the closer it is, the more she shakes. Maybe the squirrel is intimidating her? Dominating her? Nah, I think it's exciting her.

I'll have to watch that episode again to see if I can spot that. It sounds like a really interesting dialogue. Even if it's just to see a journalist with good grammar (I work at a newspaper - the proof readers generally have the good grammer!)

ORIGINAL: JM

Do you know what I remember mostly about the CM shows?  Was the show with the author of  the lab who had died.

CM took the new lab, chhht him a few times.  The dog shivered and quivered.  The owner then made a reference to CM's actions as intimidating the dog...to which CM replied..

No...dominating.   CM really emphasized the word. Even used his finger for better emphasis.  Almost like one would do when chhht-ing.

The guy had a bit of an incredulous look.  He is a journalist.  If he knows anything, it is words

So I looked up dominate:  1.to rule over; govern; control.

Then I looked up intimidate: 1.to make timid; fill with fear.

So, what have I learned from CM?  To use a dictionary more often.

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

Oh, yeah.  The other thing I learned from CM - he seems to be more polite than some. 

Certainly more polite, balanced, and honest than Zuel, to be sure.[]

Another brilliant sniper posting. Yet again off topic. With emotional tactics which dodge the OP's question once more. But, what else can you offer but a leveling of the field due to a weak team.

Open mindedness, the sharing of knowledge, and the best interests of the dog and owner mean nothing to these evangelical holy crusaders.

Take a good look at a "Positive Only" extremist forum troll, folks. You are seeing a manipulative, emotional, personal agenda at work here.

I have personally found at least six definitions of the words "dominant", "dominance", and "dominate", depending on context, not including the twisting there of...

This person is the worst of the worst I have ever seen on any dog board, ever...and that says a lot.

So...is JM just a regular dog owner who has slipped off of the deep end, or a "Positive Only" extremist trainer and a card carrying APDT member with a clear agenda? Hmmmm...

Master manipulators are very good at their "craft". It's anybody's guess. []