How would a....???

ORIGINAL: luvmyswissy


Awesomedog,  How come you have the need to take a post (any post) divide it up and answer it as if it was all about you?

Like I tell my husband, its not always about you![]

I divide them up (which I've answered before) because it's makes it clear, *who I'm addressing and what I'm commenting on*.

The post was open ended, so I gave my answer. I wonder when you tell him that if he thinks what I'm thinking at the moment. []

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

ORIGINAL: DPU
BTW, I would never teach a dog to bow, it makes no sense to me and serves no purpose at all.

You may think it's just a silly parlor trick, which it is, but if you have ever seen an elder's face light up when your therapy dog bows, or does any of a number of other tricks that make them smile, you might think differently.  And, to be honest, the dogs seem to love the attention from the seniors, too. [] 

 
My words were ‘makes no sense to me and serve no purpose#%92.  Xerxes used the words cute parlor tricks.  I am getting tired.  It is noted that Xerxes responded to Snownose, a CM follower rather than me, neutral, even though I made the statement and Snownose did a follow up.  Intentions should be re-examined.
 
Teach a dog to bow.  I have other priorities and goals for my dogs.  Let#%92s see, I have 3 Great Danes, 2 of them aged and 1 a young male.  I have 2 fosters both of which are very hard to place because of their breeds.  The fosters have a few behavior problems, nothing small but things like SA, overly attached to owner, hint of aggression to puppies.  A problem with an eye etropian surgery.  One of my Danes took a tumble down the stair so he needs special attention.  I volunteer on weekends by going to Petsmart and set up a display and advertising the dogs in the our program.  I do picture/profile for each dog and hand them out as flyers. I photo the dogs for Petsfinder.  I stand in front of the store with my dogs and fund raise.   I show my fosters to the public.  Review applications and perform home visits.  I am currently taking a Clicker Training course and to be balanced I thought I would get an understanding of CM ways by discussing my home situation with the group.  Like pulling teeth.  I am backlogged in my reading material and try to read dog books an hour every other day.  I have a large extended family and I am active with my church activities.  Oh yeah, I do have a full time job as an accountant.  AND, on top of all that Karen Pryor and UPS lost my clickers and I am having a hard time doing my Clicker class homework and I'm getting behind.  Plus I am having a hard time filling in my 3rd kennel…the organization wants me to have high turn around dog so I am involved in the placement process.  Problem is these dogs get adopted or go else where before I get them.
 
I bring my current dog life to the forum.  I ask for help and I share my experiences.  Mostly everything I discuss is my current home situation.  I get good help but I get more grief.  I don#%92t view myself in a camp and I don#%92t advocate one method over another.  I find I think differently from all others and I am not in sync with one person on this forum. 
 
Suggesting teaching a dog to bow to do therapy for the elderly?  When I can clear up a few of my home issues, then I might add dog therapy for the elderly.  Right now I need therapy.
 

ORIGINAL: DPU


I bring my current dog life to the forum.  I ask for help and I share my experiences.  Mostly everything I discuss is my current home situation.  I get good help but I get more grief. 

That struct me as sad, sorry if I sometimes play a role in that, and I hope the help you do find, helps.

DPU, I am sorry if you feel I slighted you.  But from the tone I read into your post, it seemed you had no interest in the subject.  And as such I felt that you needed no response. 

I can appreciate the demands of your situation.  I think that your dogs, both foster and family appreciate all of your efforts.  I also appreciate your efforts. 

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Well, frankly, I think that Ed would not be so much in a quandary about how CM's followers would teach a behavior (and a behavior can be either a trick or an obedience move, simple or complex), if they weren't always peppering each training and behavior thread with the advice of only one or two people,

Who is 'they'? [sm=uhoh.gif]

 
The opposite of "we". As in "them", not being "us".
 
Funny. []

ORIGINAL: DPU

My words were 'makes no sense to me and serve no purpose'. 

Now that you elaborated I see completely where you are coming from.... these things have no value to you but you're not dismissing that they may have value in other cases......  Still a bit different from me though, having seen how much the dogs seem to enjoy learning fun stuff and showing it off to people, I hope I will always have time to teach them silly "useless" things, even if I foster or rescue tricky cases in future.

Can we continue the current line of discssion and not get dragged back into the recent quarrel?  Or I'm going to have to flag up another thread to stay away from..... most tiresome.

Snownose, a CM follower rather than me

Certain people have done a good job slapping a label on me..........is that due to me not having the time to teach 5 dogs how to "Bow"????

I have mentioned before that I like some of his approaches and some I don't........YIKES..........

ORIGINAL: snownose

Snownose, a CM follower rather than me

Certain people have done a good job slapping a label on me..........is that due to me not having the time to teach 5 dogs how to "Bow"????

I have mentioned before that I like some of his approaches and some I don't........YIKES..........

While I will teach some tricks, I see no problem with your not doing so. Having healthy, happy dogs is all that's important. Years of working with *working* dogs there was no trick training taking place. So what? Regardless of what I or others might say, everyone should do what works best for them.

While I will teach some tricks, I see no problem with your not doing so. Having healthy, happy dogs is all that's important. Years of working with *working* dogs there was no trick training taking place. So what? Regardless of what I or others might say, everyone should do what works best for them.

 
I appreciate that, last night, I took the dogs out to exercise the crap out of them, that is more important to me than 5 large dogs learning how to bow...........and I still believe that they are close to me...........[8D]

ORIGINAL: DPU

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs

ORIGINAL: DPU
BTW, I would never teach a dog to bow, it makes no sense to me and serves no purpose at all.

You may think it's just a silly parlor trick, which it is, but if you have ever seen an elder's face light up when your therapy dog bows, or does any of a number of other tricks that make them smile, you might think differently.  And, to be honest, the dogs seem to love the attention from the seniors, too. [] 

My words were 'makes no sense to me and serve no purpose'.  Xerxes used the words cute parlor tricks.  I am getting tired.  It is noted that Xerxes responded to Snownose, a CM follower rather than me, neutral, even though I made the statement and Snownose did a follow up.  Intentions should be re-examined.

Teach a dog to bow.  I have other priorities and goals for my dogs.  Let's see, I have 3 Great Danes, 2 of them aged and 1 a young male.  I have 2 fosters both of which are very hard to place because of their breeds.  The fosters have a few behavior problems, nothing small but things like SA, overly attached to owner, hint of aggression to puppies.  A problem with an eye etropian surgery.  One of my Danes took a tumble down the stair so he needs special attention.  I volunteer on weekends by going to Petsmart and set up a display and advertising the dogs in the our program.  I do picture/profile for each dog and hand them out as flyers. I photo the dogs for Petsfinder.  I stand in front of the store with my dogs and fund raise.   I show my fosters to the public.  Review applications and perform home visits.  I am currently taking a Clicker Training course and to be balanced I thought I would get an understanding of CM ways by discussing my home situation with the group.  Like pulling teeth.  I am backlogged in my reading material and try to read dog books an hour every other day.  I have a large extended family and I am active with my church activities.  Oh yeah, I do have a full time job as an accountant.  AND, on top of all that Karen Pryor and UPS lost my clickers and I am having a hard time doing my Clicker class homework and I'm getting behind.  Plus I am having a hard time filling in my 3rd kennel…the organization wants me to have high turn around dog so I am involved in the placement process.  Problem is these dogs get adopted or go else where before I get them.

I bring my current dog life to the forum.  I ask for help and I share my experiences.  Mostly everything I discuss is my current home situation.  I get good help but I get more grief.  I don't view myself in a camp and I don't advocate one method over another.  I find I think differently from all others and I am not in sync with one person on this forum. 

Suggesting teaching a dog to bow to do therapy for the elderly?  When I can clear up a few of my home issues, then I might add dog therapy for the elderly.  Right now I need therapy.

I think you are tired, and overreacting to my post.  I'm sorry if I offended you, and that wasn't my intention.  I just get tired, too, of people suggesting that training tricks is somehow less important than training other behaviors, which, if it's what you want for your own dog, isn't true at all.  Nor, is it bad to decide not to train tricks.  But, the one thing that is true is that it requires the same skills as teaching any other behavior.  Hope that clarifies the point I was trying to make.
And, I started another thread in case anyone wants to jump in on the subject.

DPU, I do see where you are coming from. I don't foster giant breeds or pits (not from dislike of them, that's just not where my specialty lies). But, I do specialize in special needs, so right now I've got two dogs with pretty intense problems that I'm working with. I won't go into all the rest of the stuff that's going on in my life - we've all got "stuff" I suspect - but one of the managment issues that complicates things is the fact that I take dogs with a history of aggression against children and I've got two children.

We also train for serious work here. Some of my dogs go on to become the mainstay and right hand of the family farm, others go on to become high-dollar dogs, vitally important to the safety of the military air bases they serve.

Trick training is central to my program. Once the basics are there, it's easy to keep going with additional behaviors that happen to make people smile. The military and groundskeeper handlers love dogs that have "personalities" and relate to them better. The dogs are more adoptable if they don't work out as working dogs.

Dogs with social problems gain confidence when they do "tricks" and people make a fuss over them. This happened with my Ben - he was raised like a veal and had severe kennel shyness. I taught him some tricks and within a month of visiting dogs events in the park and greeting people with a trick (instead of cowering behind me), he was the WalMart greeter. Remember, Ben is my dog whose greatest reinforcer is praise, and not only would he get a treat from me for performing the trick, but the scary strange people would be telling him what a good dog he was.

I think prospective adopters took their adoption process more seriously when I handed them a long list of behaviors and cues. Certainly it looks more impressive in a dog's description and makes a dog that might be otherwise difficult to adopt, more attractive. If you are hoping to adopt a dog out as a sport dog, tricks show that a dog is highly trainable. If you have a dog that is older, or with a physical problem or a placement limitation, tricks help prospective adopters "get past" that and give the dog an identity besides "that dog with the _______ problem."

It is correct to say behavior, by the way. The way that I train, whether a dog selects and holds the correct sheep back from the flock for inspection and treatment, or whether he raises his paw in a "High-Five" - these are both behaviors to capture and put to cues. You don't "teach" a dog to raise a paw or put pressure on a sheep like you teach a child 2 pennies and 2 pennies is 4 pennies. It's more akin to teaching a child to put his poopies in the potty or pick up his toys.

ORIGINAL: brookcove
 You don't "teach" a dog to raise a paw or put pressure on a sheep like you teach a child 2 pennies and 2 pennies is 4 pennies. It's more akin to teaching a child to put his poopies in the potty or pick up his toys.

Picking up toys and putting them away IMO is a skill, teaching not to yell at the table is teaching good manners (behavior).

If I am remembering correctly (and I may not be) the story line involved rolls.

The guy did rescue work and his training  included  rolls.

This one would not roll and was aggressive when being brought into the home.

ORIGINAL: eley

well, I'm not defending anyone here, but I have to agree, I watched closely the jindo episode everyone is so flustered about, and while I have yet to understand (insert comment about my ignorance here) why they didn't try something else before going straight for the roll, I didn't see any hanging perse, I'm pretty sure that the dog was actually "jumping" and standing on two legs trying to get to CM, and he was only lifting the leash to maintain some sort of control, but not pulling perse. Agreed on some of the shots it does look like the dog is hanging, but again, I think that was the dog on it's way down after getting on two legs.

Just to clarify, the great thing about us English is that we have a confusing and complex language where many words have more than one meaning.  "Behaviour" does indeed mean what Awsomedog says - as in "the child sat at the table quietly and ate his greens, this was excellent behaviour".  But it is still perfectly correct to use it in the context spiritdogs used.  "when the dogs bottom hit the floor I captured it with a clicker so that I could ut the behaviour on cue". 

Wonderful thing language.

Now what was the discussion meant to be about again?

Go back "4" pages...............[8D]