How would a....???

Ok, I'll have a go at this then it's back to work. i don't know why Cesar would even be brought into this, because he does not do obt, or teach tricks, and he's the first one to point this out. Now, sinse I do both behavior and obt, I'll give my answer. I don't consider a bow to be obt, I consider it to be a trick. Here's two ways of doing this. (1) dogs will go into this posture when stretching, when they do this I will say "good bow" and pet. Soon I will catch them right the moment before they do it, and say "bow", when they do I say good bow and pet. Then when i see it click in their head, i just start saying bow when i want them to. Or! (2) I'll use a treat and lure them into a bow, and give the treat the moment they hit the right possition.

There it is. But i'll repeat, what does this have to do with Cesar and his methods of helping dogs with behavior issues? Ok, I'm off to work. Have fun.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

Ok, I'll have a go at this then it's back to work. i don't know why Cesar would even be brought into this, because he does not do obt, or teach tricks, and he's the first one to point this out. Now, sinse I do both behavior and obt, I'll give my answer. I don't consider a bow to be obt, I consider it to be a trick. Here's two ways of doing this. (1) dogs will go into this posture when stretching, when they do this I will say "good bow" and pet. Soon I will catch them right the moment before they do it, and say "bow", when they do I say good bow and pet. Then when i see it click in their head, i just start saying bow when i want them to. Or! (2) I'll use a treat and lure them into a bow, and give the treat the moment they hit the right possition.

 

This how I trained my very first dog to (when I was at the age nine) to bow. I had not read any books or studied with any trainers, to figure it out.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

There it is. But i'll repeat, what does this have to do with Cesar and his methods of helping dogs with behavior issues? Ok, I'm off to work. Have fun.
 

Because this is another "baiting" thread. Notice how Cesar was cleverly linked to Leerburg?

Alas, one has to realise that "training", "social" and "bahvioral" studies are three separate areas. *sigh*

Thinking outside of the "training" box, will be of help in understanding this, if one truely wants to understand.
 
Bye! 

Sorry, this is not a "baiting" thread.  I'm actually interested in finding out how the FOLLOWERS or those that adhere to CM and Leerburg (yes they are closely associated because of their philosophies) would train this behavior. 
 
I am curious, that's all. 

Ed....much as I hate to say it,
 
"adhere" and "FOLLOWERS", implies that one doesn't do anything other than what is recommended by one group or person. I do not think the people who like CM should be pigeonholed in that manner. I think that because as has already been pointed out...people in this area also use other forms/methods of training.
 
I would hazard to say that if this question were to take into account that people that watch CM use other methods for more run of the mill issues like OB and Tricks...than it would go something like "how do you train a dog to bow..." which really...would fit in nicely in the regular training area.
 
Not trying to make you feel bad because if you say you aren't trying to bait then I completely believe you, that's not you []...only trying to give perspective on how it "looks"...you know?

I already gave you my answer in the other thread you started - so here it is for this one.

*I* as a CM "follower" would use a clicker to teach a bow. I use CM techniques to manage the "Squirrel Alerts" and "Doorbell Dingdongs." I use a clicker for specific behaviors.

My guess is that CM would use molding or baiting and a reward. I've never seen CM persoanlly teach "tricks" or obedience commands on his show. He mainly deals just teaching owners how to set boundaries and enforce limits so the dogs aren't out-of-control lunatics.

For exercise and mental stimulation he has had the owners take the dog to trainers who specialize in different things. He's had a herding dog go to a herding trainer. There was a dalmation who worked with a movie animal trainer who used clicker training to teach the dog "stop, drop & roll" for school fire safety presentations. He had a retriever trainer work with Gracie from the Marley & Me family to give her something to do besides harass chickens. He always seems to be really excited to see these trainers work and very interested in how they train the dogs.

I loved a part in the episode with Gracie when they were playing the recall game and hiding from her. He said something about how every dog in America would be happier if all owners played that game!

As it was said before, Cesar has invited a clicker trainer to his show.
 
Leerburg, my, my, what to say....he trains protection dogs, is it necessary for them to bow?

Those who follow operant conditioning don't have their own section but would "they" consider it baiting if I asked the same question?

Both Leerburg and Cesar incorperate operant conditioning.

Those who follow operant conditioning don't have their own section but would "they" consider it baiting if I asked the same question?

I have seen others accused of baiting for asking things like how would a clicker trainer deal with an aggressive dog. I thought that was baiting and kind of obnoxious. I see it from both "sides" and I don't like it from either.

The question was how would a follower of Leerburg teach the bow, not how Leerburg himself would do it.  Most people here own pet dogs and don't train protection dogs but might still take something away from L's philosophy and style of training..... Xerxes, please correct me if I am wrong.
 
Xerxes, while I usually think your posts are bang on, this one isn't.  You can't be a "follower" of operant conditioning.  You can't be "against" it either.  It's just a term used to describe how animals learn.  Just thought I'd clarify that before you all started forming into lines on oposite sides of the battlefield.  Carry on.

fastens armoured vest and hides behind nearest tank with hands over ears>

 
You weren't kidding.....I see you signed off right away.......waiting for the smoke to clear???[][]
 
Operant conditioning is used by most trainers, if not all.

ORIGINAL: Chuffy

You can't be a "follower" of operant conditioning.  You can't be "against" it either.  It's just a term used to describe how animals learn.  Just thought I'd clarify that before you all started forming into lines on oposite sides of the battlefield.  Carry on.

 
Bingo!
 
No need for vest or earcovering. You nailed it perfectly. []

  I am putting a vote in for the clicker in teaching a bow.

I don't like the "follow" thing Ed...it implies static, rote, and rigid mindless acceptance of whatever people champion whatever method. I don't see that on this topic...which seems to disappoint you somehow for some reason.
 
I'd like to think that if someone who used all positive, had an issue with a technique another person (who also did all positive) used....they'd not follow thier advice just because 90% of their other stuff is great.
 
 Can't you give ALL "sides" the same credit?
 
I will agree with the poster who said baiting has occured on both in this area...and the others....and it is all inappropriate and does little to help dogs or dog people.