How can this be?

not according to the information in his book, which I just finished reading.

Alright this is my openion not directed toward anyone other than CM, feel free to bash it all you want:
 
The way I see it is CM is not a professional behavorlist…  He did not go to college and get a degree that proves him worthy to practice in that field.  You would not go to a Dr. who never went to med school or a psychologist who dropped out of undergrad, so why take advice from a guy who is self taught?  Sure anyone can write a self-help book but unless you go to a person who was taught how to deal with the issues then you're not going to get the help you need.  Sure his methods work for him but compare that to anything else you see on TV, you see a Dr. perform plastic surgery but you don't go out and try it yourself, you leave it for the people on TV.  I think using his methods are extremely dangerous for the average person to use and why I think that if you need a behaviorist you should go and find a qualified one yourself, not listen to what some guy on the TV says. 
 
CM is good at what he does and it's good to see many of the things he's done for dogs but unless you are able to take your dog directly to him I don't see how he can help.  He's shown that pitties are not a bad breed and that any dog can be transformed.  However, it's still purly entertainment, weather he is curle or not in his methouds is up to the viewer.  I mainly don't agree with them because I don't think it's a good idea to have a blanketed view on how to train dogs.

It's like taking Dr. Phil's advice and telling someone who has the slightest problem related to something someone on his show had and telling them to do that.  That person might need professional help and there is no way in the world some guy on the TV screen is going to tell that person exactly what they need.  Same with dogs, each one is very unique and you should not take a general overview some guys has to try to "fix” the problems.  If your dog needs help then get it to a behaviorists, don't make the problem worse by dragging it out longer.

ORIGINAL: Xebby
If your dog needs help then get it to a behaviorists, don't make the problem worse by dragging it out longer.

This is repeated several times throughout the show.

ORIGINAL: Xebby
If your dog needs help then get it to a behaviorists, don't make the problem worse by dragging it out longer.

This is repeated several times throughout the show.



True but then they reanforce that by indrectly showing that CM knows all th answers.  Instead the view goes out and buys his book thinking the answer is somewhere in there.  In the end it's really up to the viewer on how they interpret his materal.  Thoes who agree with him may do so but I would by no means say it's safe to try it without some supervision to guide you along.  I just think that if you enjoy his methouds than find a trainer who is an expert at them because using any higher methoud of training dogs without any supervision could result in more harm than what you started out to solve.

ORIGINAL: Xebby

Thoes who agree with him may do so but I would by no means say it's safe to try it without some supervision to guide you along.

I think that's true with any kind of training method.

I think that's true with any kind of training method.

As a safety issue, I don't think that's true. Yes, any kind of training method can be screwed up royally, but as far as causing actual physical harm to you or your dog, it is not the case that any training method is equally as unsafe if misapplied.

I am going to address the dark ages comment the op made.

There is a theory concerning this decade.  It goes along the lines of:

Sometimes, the collective (society) will take a decade and revisit those things they once thought they had already  worked through.

Things that we had given up years ago, suddenly becomes mainstream again.

These issues are from previous decades, of course. Just resurfacing before the next evolutionary jump forward.

Some of the issues would be our last couple of presidential elections that campaigned on gays, guns, god, women's uteruse's and science is no longer applicable, and yada yada.

There is the possibility that CM  could be placed within this also. not only his training methods, but that touch of New Age he has going on.

As would be bell bottoms, platform shoes and flannel shirts teens are wearing these days.

We just may be revisiting before moving on evolution wise.

Take a prong collar for instance, very effective in what it was designed to do but if misused it can be harmful.  The owner needs to be trained how to use it and a professional should be the one who physically measures and fits the collar to the dog's neck.  You may see and expert on TV do the fitting or read how to in a book but that doesn't guaranteed that you will fit the collar the right way.  Kind of like CM's methods, he know what he's doing but just by watching him your not going to get the same results.  If I wanted a nose job I would not hand a scalpel to a friend and say do what you saw on TV and read in this book, I would go to a person certified to do that procedure who has experience in that field.  I just think you need to be very careful if using CM's methouds.
 
Thats also why I don't see any connection btween the way he trains dogs and they way he is able to keep a calm family of dogs together.  Yes he does good things for dogs and shown that it can be done but doesn't mean his methouds should be followed and agreed with.

ORIGINAL: mrv

not according to the information in his book, which I just finished reading.

Mind sharing that part for the people here that don't have the book. Perhaps I missed it. Not that I actually care how he got started.

I think SO MUCH of how people interpret Cesar's show is influenced by the experiences and preferences we have before we even watch the show. If you ask two people to describe an episode it sounds like two different shows.

Personally, I am always influenced most by his empahsis of the handler's state of mind. That is really what helps me most with my dog's on a day to day basis. I've read quite a few books and very few even mention the handler's emotions, let alone clearly descibe and emphasize the importance of a calm, assertive state of mind. I've read plenty of behaviorists talk about how soothing a fearful dog is counterproductive - but Cesar's way of describing it and even asking people to pretend they are "Cleopatra" or any other strong person really "clicked" with me. I truly try to emulate the calm and quiet way he interacts. No yelling, no jerking, no embarassment or excitement. I've never had to roll my dogs and don't see where I would feel comfortable doing that.

Other people watch his show, and see a guy who "magically" cures a dog with alpha rolls and leash pops and totally miss the subtle emotional stuff the makes the more physical stuff unnecessary for most dogs. It's the same show. Different viewer.

Hey - it's not just Cesar's show, either. My husband watches football and sees strategy, anthleticism and teamwork. I try to watch football and all I see is a bunch of guys piling on top of each other for 10 seconds followed byof a bunch of guys trying to figure out what just happened for the next ten minutes.

ORIGINAL: jenhuedepohl

Other people watch his show, and see a guy who "magically" cures a dog with alpha rolls and leash pops and totally miss the subtle emotional stuff the makes the more physical stuff unnecessary for most dogs. It's the same show. Different viewer.

Hey - it's not just Cesar's show, either. My husband watches football and sees strategy, anthleticism and teamwork. I try to watch football and all I see is a bunch of guys piling on top of each other for 10 seconds followed byof a bunch of guys trying to figure out what just happened for the next ten minutes.

 
I think your on to something there[]
 
What I've been trying to get at I#%92m my last few post is that there is too much emphasis in his methods and not enough in what he has done for the dog community.  Seems like too many are using him as a "magic" fix for their dog#%92s problems and an excuse not to seek a professional trainer.  Thats what has me really torn on my openion about the guy.

ORIGINAL: Xebby

Alright this is my openion not directed toward anyone other than CM, feel free to bash it all you want:
 
The way I see it is CM is not a professional behavorlist…

Your right, he's a behavior expert.

He did not go to college and get a degree that proves him worthy to practice in that field.

Prove himself to who? You? Why would he need to do that? To those he has helped (where others have failed) he's proven himself just fine. Some people use their own eyes and common sense to see what's what.

You would not go to a Dr. who never went to med school or a psychologist who dropped out of undergrad, so why take advice from a guy who is self taught?

Again your comparing apples to oranges. We're talking dogs here, and just so you know, learning how to work with dogs had to start somewhere, i can promiss you it wasn't in a classroom. I also know for a fact that some of those who have walked out of a classroom thinking they know what they're doing, don't. I've witnessed this first hand. they shouldn't even be allowed to hold a leash. There are people by the way, *and pay close attention here* that live in parts of the world that have *no schools for or about dogs* and yet! unlike in this country, you don't see their dogs running around with a lot of bad behaviors. The people there that train their dogs to herd, protect, hunt, are master of what they do and can work circles around some of your PhD behaviorist and trainers. 

Sure anyone can write a self-help book but unless you go to a person who was taught how to deal with the issues then you're not going to get the help you need.  Sure his methods work for him but compare that to anything else you see on TV, you see a Dr. perform plastic surgery but you don't go out and try it yourself, you leave it for the people on TV.

Apples and oranges. If I'm watching a cooking show, I may try that, or a show about fixing something on my car, or house. See we should have the intellect to know what we can and should do within reason. do i really need to point that out.

I think using his methods are extremely dangerous for the average person to use and why I think that if you need a behaviorist you should go and find a qualified one yourself, not listen to what some guy on the TV says.

That's why there's a disclaimer that CEARLY says, "Do not! try this without the help of a professional"  But even that doesn't make some of you happy (and that is odd).  People should and have the right to use who they know will help them best.  Not simply becuase they have a paper hung on their wall.  I think many of us have seen how little that can mean sometimes.
 

CM is good at what he does and it's good to see many of the things he's done for dogs but unless you are able to take your dog directly to him I don't see how he can help.

He is? But he didn't go to school, so how can that be true? His show can help people by sharing imformation about dogs.

He's shown that pitties are not a bad breed and that any dog can be transformed.  However, it's still purly entertainment, weather he is curle or not in his methouds is up to the viewer.  I mainly don't agree with them because I don't think it's a good idea to have a blanketed view on how to train dogs.

Yep. Ok. And he doesn't

It's like taking Dr. Phil's advice and telling someone who has the slightest problem related to something someone on his show had and telling them to do that.  That person might need professional help and there is no way in the world some guy on the TV screen is going to tell that person exactly what they need.

I don't think it's anything like that. But that's IMO.

Same with dogs, each one is very unique and you should not take a general overview some guys has to try to "fix” the problems.

Speaking mainly for myself, I don't. And as far as I know, neither does Cesar.

If your dog needs help then get it to a behaviorists, don't make the problem worse by dragging it out longer.

On that we can agree, one should seek professional help when it's needed.

ORIGINAL: jenhuedepohl


Personally, I am always influenced most by his empahsis of the handler's state of mind. That is really what helps me most with my dog's on a day to day basis.

Did you catch that Xebby, something was learned by watching a show and getting imformation. Now how did that happen.?[]

There is a theory concerning this decade. It goes along the lines of:

Sometimes, the collective (society) will take a decade and revisit those things they once thought they had already worked through.

Things that we had given up years ago, suddenly becomes mainstream again.

These issues are from previous decades, of course. Just resurfacing before the next evolutionary jump forward.

Some of the issues would be our last couple of presidential elections that campaigned on gays, guns, god, women's uteruse's and science is no longer applicable, and yada yada.

There is the possibility that CM could be placed within this also. not only his training methods, but that touch of New Age he has going on.

As would be bell bottoms, platform shoes and flannel shirts teens are wearing these days.

We just may be revisiting before moving on evolution wise.

This is a of topic, but... A few days ago I stumbled upon a thread in one forum that was about using NILIF method to address certain behavioral issues.
Quite a few folks in the forum, including admins, were concerned about the use of NILIF since a lot of dog owners reported depression... in their dogs *after beginning to use NILIF*. One said: I hope in years time, we won't look back and say, how cruel we have been!

Ummmm...

 TinaK


Here's why I don't see that happening IMO. It's simply natures way, and that, will never change.