How can this be?

eley

And now we're what, comparing learning about dogs to, learning surgery and medicine. Again, dogs while highly intelligent, are very simplistic, a fact over looked by some humans. Medicine and surgery!? Not even in the same ball park.

I think it is because you are abusive in your dealing with people.  It is easy to assume that bleeds over into dealing with dogs.

I mean really...do you need to insult everyone who disagrees with you?

One thing we all seem to agree on concerning CM is that he indeed does stay "calm and assertive"and definitely has charisma when it comes to people.

I am trying to have a dicussion, it's just a little difficult to have with some of the CM bashers who are claiming my methods are abusive, and can't even back that statement up.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

eley

And now we're what, comparing learning about dogs to, learning surgery and medicine. Again, dogs while highly intelligent, are very simplistic, a fact over looked by some humans. Medicine and surgery!? Not even in the same ball park.

I was compraing a learning process, on one side you can start by figuring out fundamentals on your own, or you could absorb that exact same knowledge that other have already gathered thru observation and continue from that point on. I'm not sure eexactly what kind of answer you are looking for here as in regards to your original post.

ORIGINAL: JM

I think it is because you are abusive in your dealing with people.  It is easy to assume that bleeds over into dealing with dogs.

As usual, you just simply wrong, and still just looking for a fight. Period. As transparent as glass.

I mean really...do you need to insult everyone who disagrees with you?

Quote the insult, would you.

And if you haven't notice, I'm not Cesar. So TsssT!

ORIGINAL: eley

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

eley

And now we're what, comparing learning about dogs to, learning surgery and medicine. Again, dogs while highly intelligent, are very simplistic, a fact over looked by some humans. Medicine and surgery!? Not even in the same ball park.

I was compraing a learning process, on one side you can start by figuring out fundamentals on your own, or you could absorb that exact same knowledge that other have already gathered thru observation and continue from that point on.

Comparisons IMO should be valid to the conversation.

I'm not sure eexactly what kind of answer you are looking for here as in regards to your original post.

Let's see if I can clear it up then. If Cesar is so *abusive* why are his dogs so happy? Does that clear it up?

Insult: (to Xerexs) "Doh! I'm sorry, I actually thought you were talking on something you had some knowlegde of, then I see this"

Insult: (to xerexs) "Making the comments you have with such little knowledge of what your talking about is one of the main problems here."

Do you actually not consider these remarks to be insulting?

ORIGINAL: JM

Insult: (to Xerexs) "Doh! I'm sorry, I actually thought you were talking on something you had some knowlegde of, then I see this"

Insult: (to xerexs) "Making the comments you have with such little knowledge of what your talking about is one of the main problems here."

Do you actually not consider these remarks to be insulting?

I'll answer this before I go. NOPE! Simple facts, care to prove them wrong? Dude, your wasting my time, why don't you find someone alse to stalk.

Let's see if I can clear it up then. If Cesar is so *abusive* why are his dogs so happy? Does that clear it up?

I guess you'd have to ask his dogs.

I have always been a proponent of Cesar and I believe his methods work.  I have never, ever found him to be abusive or hurtful to a dog – ever!!  I think his dog pack works because he is great at what he does.  I also believe that there are some things that Cesar does to some dogs that may cause that dog to become more fearful or scared of the handler so yes, I don't always agree 100%. 

Just like the Alpha Roll controversy, I don't think it hurts a dog psychically and I don't think that Cesar's placing a dog on his side and holding it still is the same as grabbing an attacking dog and wrestling it to the ground in a bid for dominates is the same and personally, IMHO it is just plain old weird – and I don't believe Cesar would do that in the same circumstance.

I have argued Pro Cesar methods 100 times myself on these forums.  I don't roll my dog, but I do use leash corrections, pinch collars and I own an electric fence.  All these methods are things only plus R people would find to be cruel and abusive. 

What we see Cesar doing week after week is "correcting” behavior issues not training a dog's to come or sit – and we never will see this from Cesar.  That would require a more positive training method and that is not his thing. 

ORIGINAL: Trevell

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

He isn't a god. 

That's Zod. 

It's funny how people will state they don't disrespect or bash Cesar, and then in the same post attribute all his scucess to marketing and Oprah and good looks and appealing to the lowest common denominator.  And don't forget to add in the words barbaric, brutality, crank and yank, excessive force, etc..

 
It's also funny how people take sentences out of context when speaking about CM.  I didn't mention barbaric, brutality, crank and yank.  Do not put words in my mouth please.  In fact I think I gave a pretty nice review of him

  I don't disrespect CM at all.  I think he has done a great service to the dog community in general.  That said, I do not like the process with which he acheives his goals.  I don't think he's cruel to his dogs.  I don't think he's misunderstood by those of us that don't subscribe to his methods

 
I don't think I mentioned Oprah or his good looks (which are very subjective btw) at all in my post.  I'm happy for his success.  I just don't agree that his methods work with all dogs all the time. 
 
But go ahead and read into it whatever you will.  You're defending your god.  And as good disciples go, you'll go to any lengths to bash any who do not agree with you. 

ORIGINAL: espencer


I am confused, it seems you know what you are talking about him but right after you said:

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

I have never watched a show

Dont you think is ironic? I am sure he spends more than the 10 minutes they show on TV asking questions to the owners and comes to a conclusion depending on the learning rate, emotional status or specific issues of the dog and then is when they start taping him, of course no one size fits all, and i have seen him doing a different technique when it seems to be the same problem

 
But you didn't include the REST OF THE SENTENCE...which I will, for further clarification...
 

  I have never watched a show, only clips from espencers favorite website

 
Did I say that I watched two clips or three or four?  Nay. 
 
I don't get NGC.  I use clips from the web to watch his show.  It's better anyways, no commercial interruption.  But let's only take things out of context.

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

ORIGINAL: Trevell

ORIGINAL: Xerxes

He isn't a god. 

That's Zod. 

It's funny how people will state they don't disrespect or bash Cesar, and then in the same post attribute all his scucess to marketing and Oprah and good looks and appealing to the lowest common denominator.  And don't forget to add in the words barbaric, brutality, crank and yank, excessive force, etc..

It's also funny how people take sentences out of context when speaking about CM.  I didn't mention barbaric, brutality, crank and yank.  Do not put words in my mouth please.  In fact I think I gave a pretty nice review of him

  I don't disrespect CM at all.  I think he has done a great service to the dog community in general.  That said, I do not like the process with which he acheives his goals.  I don't think he's cruel to his dogs.  I don't think he's misunderstood by those of us that don't subscribe to his methods

I don't think I mentioned Oprah or his good looks (which are very subjective btw) at all in my post.  I'm happy for his success.  I just don't agree that his methods work with all dogs all the time. 

But go ahead and read into it whatever you will.  You're defending your god.  And as good disciples go, you'll go to any lengths to bash any who do not agree with you. 

I wasn't referring to your specifically, it's just that your post reminded me of the typical kind of post I usually see regarding my lord and savior.[sm=angel.gif]  I  thought adding the words and phrases from other posts I've read, similar to yours would make that clear.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog

ORIGINAL: JM

Do you...

Dude, your wasting my time, why don't you find someone alse to stalk.

 
Noticed a behavior pattern did you? []

As usual this thread, which started out asking for opinion, has devolved into baiting and rude behavior-because the very posters posted their opinions. 

ORIGINAL: Xerxes


But you didn't include the REST OF THE SENTENCE...which I will, for further clarification...

Did I say that I watched two clips or three or four?  Nay. 

I don't get NGC.  I use clips from the web to watch his show.  It's better anyways, no commercial interruption.  But let's only take things out of context.

Maybe with a little more research you can clarify some of the wrong opinions you have about his techniques []