It looks like we'll have to do something about Madison...

You have a lot of experience with dogs and i have no doubt you are making the right decision for your family and your dog.
 
I hate to bother you with this right now, and I'll understand if you don't.  But could you just glance at this article for me.  I've had dogs all my life, after dealing with my past problem with my dog's behavioral problems, I'm always afraid of getting into the same situation.  It turns out that the pup I just adopted may be part chow.  Please, please I'm in no way saying that all these mixes are the same.  I'm just trying to educate myself. [linkhttp://leerburg.com/chows.htm]http://leerburg.com/chows.htm[/link]

I honestly am not the person to ask about chows. They're not a breed that I have studied at all...I'm more of a pit bull person myself. I could venture a guess and say that yes, chows are generally very strong willed and that article seems accurate *from what I know,* which isn't much- all I have is experience dealing with this one dog, and that really isn't enough to go on.
 
I would reccomend PMing WillowChow. She has chow experience and will probably be your best bet.   

[Well, her bahvior has gotten progressively worse. She started attacking the other dogs. Okay, no more play time with the other dogs. She started becoming possessive of various objects- we just ignored her, practiced really extreme NILIF, and hoped that would help. It didn't. She started opening cabinets to steal food right in front of us. A verbal correction resulted in her flipping over onto her back, urinating in fear, and yelping- as if I had hit her. This became a trend, and she began to progressively overeact to even the slightest verbal correction- the only corrections we gave. We never laid a hand on her.

Then she started snapping at us whenever she thought we were angry. If we grabbed her collar to stop her from physically doing something wrong, she would flip out and snap at us. It was entirely out of fear- but what else were we going to do? Never ever correct her for anything? We tried ignoring all bad behavior and rewarding the good. She then did more of the good behaviors, but continued the same level of bad. If there are no repurcussions for doing something she shouldn't do, she continues to do it. The reward for her is in the behavior itself.

/quote]
 
 
yup. You should never ever correct this dog, even verbally, or show you are angry with her. Very hard to do. If you need to "correct" a self-rewarding behavior you'd have to arrange for the environment to do the correction instead of you. Very hard to do. This dog has decided to escalate and  "Get you before you get her" due to her history.
The only rehab rogram  that would work with a dog like this is serious management to keep her from ever being able to "do something wrong", a strict NILIF (which you did), and completely +R training, as in completely reward based, no corrections at all, no physical manhandling as in grabbing collars, serious anti-resource guarding training, click to calm programs around other dogs, possibly anti-anxiety medications and muzzle and drag lines for safety.  
 
I did it once and will never do it again it was rather horrible. If the dog is so terrified and traumatized that it is acting like this the quality of life of the dog is probably not good. Quality of life is more important than length of life IMHO.

Ratsicles, you have my heartfelt sympathy. I sure do know what it is to put time, effort, and tears into a dog and have it come down to this. I've got a t-shirt if you want it - I bought it already, so no charge (it says, "Been there, done that, this is my t-shirt").

The following isn't to undermine your decision or make you second guess yourself. It is for the sake of anyone else in a similiar situation with an older dog.

When an older dog shows signs of severe behavioral changes, one of the things to discuss (after the obvious - metabolic disease, chronic pain, thyroid, tick diseases) with the vet is cognitive dysfunction. It's like alzhiemer's in dogs. The symptoms are the same, distrust, paranoia, aggressive behavior, disorientation, fear behaviors, withdrawal. The cause is even the same, plaques on the brain which "clog" synapses.

There's a treatment for it, but there's some caveats. It doesn't work for all dogs. It's expensive (though not hugely so, about $40/month initially then goes up as the dose has to be increased). And it's a bandaid, not a cure - eventually the disease will overtake the level at which the drug can be given safely.

It also works best for younger dogs who experience the disease early on - like my Ben, who started showing signs two years ago when he was just nine years old. Two, almost three years later, he's still going pretty strong and symptom free, on a natural supplement rather than the drug, though I'm going to talk to the doctor next time about going back to the drug as he's getting a little withdrawn again.

Again, this is more of an aside to those who might be in a similiar situation but not quite as close to the end of their ropes as is the case with Madison. God bless you and Madison, no matter what you decide here.

Respectfully, there are many other sites and books that offer information....

and to Ratsicles:  you do what you need to do.... to come to such a decision is full demonstration of the effort, care, money, love and guilt we all feel when we make the choice to end a dog's life.  You have my full support and my prayers for an easing of the grief you will feel.

Dh just left with her about 10 minutes ago. I broke down the second they walked out the door. This is honestly the worst thing I have ever experienced. I have never had to euthanize a dog before, not even for an illness...much less something like this.


Thank you agian everyone, so much, for your advice and support. It means more than you know.

Brittany, I am so sorry.  I have been thinking about this a lot, and there is just nothing else you could have done.  Madison was living in fear, to the point she lashed out even at people who loved her.  And because you had such love for her, you were able to stop the misery she must be living in.  In your position, I would have done the same thing.  You are wonderful for giving her that chance, and for letting her go when she was telling you it was getting to be too much for her. 
 
Our hearts are with you right now, please take care.

Britt,
I have so much admiration for the level of compassion you have for animals of all kinds. I know this is not an easy decision for you to have made, and is pretty much my worst nightmare for myself. Very very very few people have the ability, skills, and just general life set-up to even safely manage a truly aggressive dog, let alone rehab.

I've been thinking about you and Madison a lot. I wish your whole family some peace, Madison included. She deserves it, after all this time.

((((Brittany))))

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

Dh just left with her about 10 minutes ago. I broke down the second they walked out the door. This is honestly the worst thing I have ever experienced. I have never had to euthanize a dog before, not even for an illness...much less something like this.


Thank you agian everyone, so much, for your advice and support. It means more than you know.

Oh, Brittany, I am so sorry it had to end like this for poor Madison.  But, I do understand that you had simply run out of options that you could manage.  She will still wait for you at the Bridge, I'm sure, because you truly did try to help her, and you may have been the only ones.  To all the lurkers who think that it is not important to get your dogs the training and socialization they need and train with kindness and respect, think again.  Someone like poor Brit may experience this kind of agony trying to clean up your messes - and it just ain't fair!!!!!
<<>> to you and DH.  And, run free (finally without fear) sweet Madison.

Brittany, tonight all of us will give our dogs some extra love, kindness and compassion because of your posting.  Some of us will train a bit more, and all of us will give our dogs an extra hug.  And when we do it, we'll think of sweet Madison who is waiting for you at the bridge, running free and running fearlessly-waiting for a chance to see you again.
 
 

Brittany, I'm crying right with you.   You have given Madison the gift of peace.  She went to sleep knowing for a time in her life that she was loved and her people cared about her.  She was one lucky dog to have someone like you!
 
I hope you'll have time to go through all the emotions you'll feel.  It took me a long time just to get through the anger, sometimes misdirected anger,  at the dog, the breeder, the previous owners, the shelter, even the  person he bit, and mostly myself.    It's something I had never experienced before.  I've had to put my very old dog down, but somehow that was different. 
 
 It was hard for me to find support in a situation like this, but know that I am thinking about you and that you can find strength knowing you're not alone.  Take care and please don't be too hard on yourself.

I'm so sorry things with Madison went like this.  Sometimes it's really hard to do the right thing. 

Brittany, tonight all of us will give our dogs some extra love, kindness and compassion because of your posting.

 
Especially me. [sm=sad.gif] I sent you a PM too Brittany.

Brittany, I know how you must be hurting so badly but you did not fail Madison. In fact, you had hope, and you never gave up. Failures are hopeless and give up. You did not fail her. You and your husband did what, unfortunately, was the best for everyone. Sometimes time, no matter how much effort and love is found in it, cannot heal all wounds, as was the case with Madison. You are truly amazing for taking Madison under your wing and trying everything to help her. Don't ever think otherwise or be hard on yourself - every dog would be lucky to have a friend like you, a mommy like you. Hug your five absolutely beautiful dogs who love you, and be at peace with your decision. There is no doubt in my mind that Madison is happy and carefree now, no longer burdened with her past. She'll wait for you, and show you the same patience and love you kindly bestowed upon her.
 
Rest In Peace, Madison.