It looks like we'll have to do something about Madison...

[] I'm very sorry that you are going through this. You tried your best and it sounds like the poor dog is beyond repair. I believe that you are doing the right thing for the sake of you, your family and any unsuspecting people that might cross her path. *big hugs*

From what I've read you've done the best you can for her.  She couldn't have found her way to a better place.  I guess everything has just caught up with her and it's too much for her to take.  Your upcoming move might even compound her stress.  But you have to think of what' s best for you, your husband, and your other pets.  It's not fair to anyone, not even to Madison for her to be around in that condition.  This is also not an impulse decision, you waited longer than many people would have.

Stacita, I believe she's had a full thyroid panel done on Madison and she just feels that at this point she can't afford to spend any more on her given what she's spend already on her medical conditions, especially when she's so dangerous to have around the house.

 
I thought she'd probably had but it's hard to keep up with everything that goes on here. Another factor is that if it were medical, she could spend thousands and never get a diagnosis, and especially a treatable diagnosis.

I am so sorry! This is the hardest thing you have to go thru,, I know it hurts you so much. But please always know you ARE doing the right thing.  Madison seems to be too dangerous for any other ending. Knowing you have tried your hardest to give her a good life should give you some peace...seeing her out the way you will...with the people that she loves is a  wonderful thing....even though its sad for you.  She doesn't know any better...she is a victim! 
It will be sad days to come for you guys,,,but hang in there and find peace in seeing her to the end.

I know its sad and heartbreaking but a dog who bites his owners- agressively, is no longer a pet.  Personally, I would do the same thing.
 
Best of luck to you!!

Please for your own sake, take your time making this decision.  Think it through.  Talk to your vet, get professional advice.  Bring the dog to a trainer and have him evaluated.    I went through a similar situation.  I put my 2yr old beloved shelter dog down while I was in a panic over a biting incident, I wasn't thinking clearly at all.  I so regret my decision and living with the guilt is just awful.  I think about him everyday, I want him back, I want another chance to get him help.  Too late, I'll never ever forgive myself for it!  Don't let this be you.
 
Google this:  LEERBURG.COM
 
He's got some excellent articles and advice on how a dog like this should be handled and what you can do now.    Reading about it may help you make a decision you can live with.  I unfortunately found it too late. 
 
I'll be thinking about you, please let us know how you make out.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[linkhttp://leerburg.com/dominantdogs.htm]http://leerburg.com/dominantdogs.htm[/link] 
 
oops!  these are the articles i was referring to.

ORIGINAL: jovial

Please for your own sake, take your time making this decision.  Think it through.  Talk to your vet, get professional advice.  Bring the dog to a trainer and have him evaluated.    I went through a similar situation.  I put my 2yr old beloved shelter dog down while I was in a panic over a biting incident, I wasn't thinking clearly at all.  I so regret my decision and living with the guilt is just awful.  I think about him everyday, I want him back, I want another chance to get him help.  Too late, I'll never ever forgive myself for it!  Don't let this be you.

Google this:  LEERBURG.COM

He's got some excellent articles and advice on how a dog like this should be handled and what you can do now.    Reading about it may help you make a decision you can live with.  I unfortunately found it too late. 

I'll be thinking about you, please let us know how you make out.

 
 
Honestly, we are NOT making a rash decision here. This is something that we have been dealing with for a good while. If this were the first time she had attacked us, I would do anything in my power to work with her- and the first time she attacked us, I did. None of those things worked. I honestly didn't post about it mainly because I was afraid of somehow being judged for her problems. I now realize that was silly, and I should have asked for help. At this point though, it is what it is and I turly believe that she is beyond help...and I do not make that statement lightly.
 
I think that she is beyond the help of a behaviorist or trainer at this point- and truth be told, I would be afraid to have her in the house for any period of time in order to allow a trainer to work with her on these issues- she is dangerous.  We are not talking about one or two isolated fear bites here. She comes at us, snarling and barking, teeth bared, several times a week. Sometimes she makes contact and bites- normally we are able to fend her off with the broom handle we keep nearby whenever dealing with her- having something to defend ourselves with has become necessary. This last attack was not an isolated incident- it was simply the worst of these incedents, and the final straw. There is also the issue of liability- we are about to move to an 8 acre farm, and my dogs wqill be spending a large amount of time playing outside. What if she were to jump the fence, get loose, and bite someone? I am not willing to risk possible jail time because I chose to keep a dog who was dangerously human aggressive.
 
And really, I couldn't afford a behaviorist at this point anyway. I have put SO much money into this dog dealing with her medical issues that I am officially tapped out. To be honest, I am not willing to completely drain my vet fund on the off chance of helping a dog that is this big of a danger to us. If that makes me a bad person, then I guess that's it.
 
We are NOT talking about simple fear aggression and reactivity here. I have a dog- my Akita, Ogre- who is fear aggressive. I was able to work with him on his issues. This is something completely different- this is extreme, dangerous human aggression. Yes, it is due to fear- and I feel horrible that she has been made to feel and act this way- but it is what it is, and I don't feel that I can do any more for her.
 
This is a dog that was systematically neglected and abused for the first 10 years of her life. When I took her, I naively thought that I could fix her. I was able to heal her physical wounds- I have finally realized that all of the love, money, attention, and care  in the world can't heal her emotional ones. I hate that I have to admit this fact...I hate to have failed in this...but there it is.
 
 
We were not able to get her in today...so it looks like it's going to happen tomorrow. DH is trying right now to get the afternoon off so he can take her in. Again, I appreciate everyone's support in this SO much...I hate this it has to be this way, but this is just how things are.

I found this at work, and I just can NOT post from there (it won't let me type in a 'box') so I hope you got the email (I can't PM for the same darned reason).
 
Brit -- you've done your best, her best, and it's all you can do.  Period.  Sometimes the damage done to them is just plain tooo darned deep.  I have a feeling once she got a taste of being 'alpha' she just couldn't stop trying to control *everything*.  I think it's directly a result of the damage that's been done over the years.
 
I think she knows, Brit.  But deep down, I don't think she's completely happy because it's all just been too damaging.
 
So here's where "love" is real love.  Brit, it's not unlike those of us who have suddenly gotten old enough to see our parents get 'frail'.  Madison has been around ALL your life, and much of how YOU feel about animals has been shaped by how your parents treated Madison -- your frustration with that.  And now it came full circle when you DID take Madison and try to give her the best you could.
 
And it's hard ... so very very hard to "love" and have it just not get deep enough to 'fix' things.  And that's a tough lesson Brit. And I'm so sorry you have to wade thru it -- but Brit -- this IS love.  Loving her enough to realize she's not happy, and just passing off the responsibility won't "help" a thing.  But loving her and sending her off to where she WILL be happy and relaxed. 
 
And I don't think it's a bad thing to have your husband take her.  She's been able to form a post-abuse bond with him -- and she'll probably be more rational with him. 
 
As I said in my e-mail -- ask the vet for valium FIRST.  Then she'll just slip into sleep.  Then the euthanasia drug doesn't frighten them.  That "feeling" can frighten some animals and frankly, Madison doesn't need to leave afraid -- just going to sleep will be bliss for her.
 
She'll yawn and stretch at the top of Rainbow Bridge -- and at the bottom will be waiting MANY.  As I said Foxy will be waiting at the bottom simply because he's MY old guy and he'd be completely tuned to "a family friend that he'd never met".  But my Ms. Socks will likely be there too.  She had a rough rough life before us ... and honestly, tho she was with us for almost 7 years she never 'bonded' to me altho I know she cared deeply for us.
 
But she would understand the whole "real life at the end of Life" thing.  She'd also understand fear and abuse.  And she'll explain none of that happens up there.  And she'll show Madison all the best places to lie in the sun, and she'll show Madison all the unruly pups that NEED a "Mom" (because she got SO good at that with Butter). 
 
And they'll also make sure she doesn't feel guilty or bad.  And there will be a lot of "My family loved me SOO MUCH that ...." stories. 
 
Brit -- my heart breaks right along with yours.  But deep in your heart you have grown as a person.  Because you DID the right thing.  You did the right thing, despite a lot of flak from your family ... despite the cost ... despite how difficult it was. 
 
And now ... you are still doing the 'right' thing.  You are loving her enough to ensure that she doesn't live unhappy.  Because she would be miserable.  Being angry like that isn't pleasant for man nor beast. 
 
I honestly suspect there is something medical that she's just not dealing well with.  SOMEDAY you will know.  And someday you'll be re-united and you and she can go for that long walk along the River of Life. 
 
Please call me if you need to.  Before, during or after.   ok?

Jovial -- what you are saying would be the exact thing most of us would say if we didn't already know the full extent of this story.  This type of personality 'change' (and one that is happening this 'gradually' but in a very noticable descent) -- this isn't something that can be trained and I honestly don't think, in this case, that it's behavioral. 
 
Brit -- it's not unusual in a situation where a dog suddenly gets good food, good treatment, etc. - to suddenly fall apart mentally.  A mere change in life can simply allow a condition that has been progressing for many years, that may have partly been kept "silent" out of fear of reprisal -- now she suddenly in the past few months has literally been liberated to "feel" and that in, and of itself, can be sufficient to allow a medical problem to suddenly be more 'noticable' or manifest.
 
This is not unlike what occured with my Polly.  WE took this little 5 month old female who had been HORRIBLY abused -- her abuser had broken her back with a broom handle in repeated beatings and we knew when we took her she couldn't walk.
 
She was only with us for 3 months.  Three of the hardest months I ever went thru -- oh she knew HAPPINESS with us.  She knew **for the first time in her life** what it was to have a full stomach twice a day, she knew affection, she knew LOVE, she knew someone who championed her accomplishments and helped her.
 
She even knew STRAWBERRY ICE CREAM. (now there was a pure-Polly "WOW!!!" moment).
 
But despite good food, good care, pet massage, and everything else traditional and holistic medicine had to offer she declined.  She probably wouldn't have lived 3 months without us. 
 
Had a stroke not torn her from my arms that June night 3 years ago (almost to the day, Brit) as much as I loved Polly -- she would not have been a happy dog long term.  Her abuse had been so terribly severe, and it left her so scared in so many situations -- I'm not sure she would have been truly happy. 
 
I was beyond devastated when we lost her ... but in the 3 years since, I have realized it was truly best for HER. 
 
We've seen so many dogs who had been abused blossom with us.  But those rare cases where you just can't 'fix' all the hurts are devastating.  That won't make tomorrow any easier ... but you have my prayers and good thots, nonetheless.

Brittany, you've given Madison the BEST! Her months with you were the best months of her life. You fixed her skin, and gave her good food every day. She'd probably never felt better.  I know it's heartbreaking, but you're *still* giving her the best, when you help her over the Bridge. She can't be happy, here. There's bigger and better things in store, for her[]

You may not need a behaviorist - have you asked your regular vet to prescribe Clomicalm or any other psychopharmacological agent?  Has she been evaluated for seizure activity?
I know that you are stressed emotionally and financially from this, but I just thought I'd offer the possibilities in case you wanted to grasp one last straw.  Also, if she's continuing to "attack" and not break skin, she's got great bite inhibition and that would be a dog I would consider meds with.  If not, and she is breaking skin in a dangerous way (punctures or multiples) then you may have to opt for safety.  The dog that wants to injure you DOES.  The dog that wants to scare you away may not do so in the beginning, and may or may not escalate to damage.
I've seen dogs that bite and puncture do well on Clomicalm and other agents, such that you would never know that they had a problem.  Not holding out false hope, but I think it's worth a try if you want to go there.

i absolutely understand what you're going through, and from your posts i know that you've thought this through and it is your last resort.  i just wanted to relay some of my story in the hope that you and you're family wouldn't feel as horrible as we did.   after researching, i now feel that i could've helped my dog, he was only 2!  but the truth is that no matter what, i don't think i could have trusted him ever again.  do you see how i go back and forth on this?  i just have a real hard time dealing with it. 
 
after i put my dog down, i have to say, i had some relief in knowing that he was safe, at peace.  my biggest fear for him was that he'd be taken out of my home by the town and i couldn't bear the thought of that.
 
 
 this article also helped me a lot
[linkhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10653223/site/newsweek/]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10653223/site/newsweek/[/link]
 
 
take care, let us know how you're doing.
 

Spiritdogs, Great advice!  Not only for Ratsickles but for the rest of us too.

Callie...thank you so much. I PM'd you. []
 
 
Guys, I appreciate the advice...I really do. But the truth is, at this point, we are done. I cannot have a dog in the house that bites us on a nearly daily basis any longer. I can't, and I am not willing. Yes, SOME of her attacks are just alot of yelling and no biting. She is showing restraint in those situations. In just as many situations, she bites us like crazy. My husband had a 4 inch gash in his leg that I couldn't talk him into getting stitched. We both have NUMEROUS puncture bites from her. She may be inhibiting her biting SOME of the time...but what about when she isn't? What if next time it's someone's neck, not their leg, that she leaves a 4 inch gash in? I'm not trying to be dramatic...I'm trying to be realistic. I grew up with this dog, I know this dog, and at this point I am very confidant that she is capable of seriously harming someone. It might be a year from now, it might be tomorrow- but it can, and probably will, happen...and it's just not a risk I am willing to take any longer.
 
 
No, she hasn't been evaluated for seizures. The truth is, that at this point, I simply cannot put any more money into her. She has LOTS of health problems, and when we decided to take her back in March, we were not prepared for how expensive she would be. I have put THOUSANDS into this dog at this point. Constant vet trips, constant vet bills. This was not a dog that I chose for my family- this was a dog that was probably a few days away from dying so we took her. We just do not have unlimited resources when it comes to her- I have other pets whose needs have been put on the backburner so that she could get the care she needed. I have two dogs who need to be neutered- one of which is LONG overdue- a rat who needs a spay, another rat who is NOT on the proper dosage of medication she needs for chronic pneumonia because, thanks to Madison, I can't afford it- Axl needs surgery to have fat deposits removed, and Pepito is on quite a variety of herbals to deal with HIS issues...and they're not terribly cheap. ALL of my other pets have , thus far, gone on the back burner so that I could deal with Madison. At this point, I can no longer justify it. I have done all that I can for her.
 
And again- she is not safe to have in the house any more. Right now, she is locked in a crate, wearing the muzzle I just got her. She now has to be muzzled for everything but eating...because we WILL be bitten in our daily dealings with her otherwise. Feeding her is one of the most dangerous time, and she obviously has to be unmuzzled for that, so we are STILL at risk even now. This is no way for her to live, and no way for US to live. It is time for this to be done. I hate it, but that's how it is.
 
 
I am not going to regret this. I am horribly saddened by it, but I won't feel regret for anything other than the fact that this was allowed to happen to her. I know that she is NOT happy. She does NOT want to live this way, and I firmly believe that even she understands that her kindest option right now is euthanazia. I am not saying that to make myself feel better- I truly believe it. This is a miserable, tortured, hurting dog. I hate that all of this damage has been done to her...but there it is. I feel very strongly that we ARE making the right decision at this point...and I think Madison understands that too.
 
Thanks so much everyone for the support and advice. The more I think about it, the more I'm truly convinced that I am making the right decision.